Afetr the patch - how "stop the hostilities or be excommunicated" works?

[Handel]

I attacked twice enemy armies in my provinces - they were just stayng there and relouded because because I forget about the Pope mission; BUT - I wasn't excommunicated immediately. So how does this mission works after the patch? Before the patch you could only deblock a port or siege, but not attack enemy armies in your territories.

[Molinaargh]

Before the patch I forgot I had that mission and attacked, as Poland, a Danish army. The stack was just standing in my territory.

I was not excommunated, but my relations with the Pope worsened. They were "Perfect" before this event.

When I tried to attack the Danes again in that turn, a warning message came up saying that I would get excommunated if I attacked.
So I guess that's not a patch change.

[Lord Ovaat]

Even prior to the patch, you would not be excommunicated for attacking a "cease hostilities against" faction IF the army was in your territory, seiging one of your cities or castles, or blockading your ports (naval). Those are defensive actions, and should not be prohibited. They were in MTW (sort of), but not now. Cool. You may also maintain a seige against that factions cities, or a port blockade. Just don't attempt another while sanctions are in effect. That, however, I think is a bit odd. I would still consider maintaining a seige or blockade as an offensive action. But I'll take it.

[knoddy]

failing that mission does not always result in excomution. often it depends on ur relations with the pope. quite often in my english campaign i had very high relations with the pope, and was able to keep attacking without reprecussions i failed that mission several times without being excomuted, howerver in my current scottish camp, i failed at a point where i had like 1 cross on the pope o meter and was excomuted immediatly. quite often the missions says, if u fail u "MAY" be excomuted, meaning there is a possibility.


Cheers Knoddy


p.s. lifting sieges, blockading ports, lifting naval blockades, do not count as acts of aggression iirc.

[Snoil The Mighty]

Most often, that mission doesn't specify excommunication, just says your relations with the pope will suffer (Iforget the exact verbiage). I have kept high popescale numbers and got away with minor actions many times that have been easily repaired with tithing (aka florins for His Holiness, the Bishop of Rome)

[Slicendice]

Basically if you have really good relations with the Pope then you will only suffer a hit to those relations. If relations are poor and you break the cease hostilities order you will probably be excommunicated.

I repeatedly break these orders and I have a diplomat stationed right next to Rome for the sole purpose of giving the Pope 500 florins every turn or so to make sure our relationship is at or near Perfect. I also have the only alliance with the Pope as well. (I'm so popular I wish he would die already!)

So, as long as you are willing to buy your friends in M2TW then you will never be excommunicated. Also, I feel it's easier to call for crusades.

One thing about Cease Hostility orders is that both factions are ordered to cease. So if you attack a faction that is seiging your city or blockading your port then you are OK. But if they do anything to you then their relationship with the Pope deteriorates and they can be excommunicated. Then you make a Crusade and gets some cool unites and Chivalry bonus'.

Also I think if you attack troops that are on your land you break the mission. I should try it to make sure. Usually you get a warning before you do it, but save the game to be sure.

And if you are already blockading a port then you don't have to remove the ships. But you can't blockade another port after the order.

[Zenicetus]

I repeatedly break these orders and I have a diplomat stationed right next to Rome for the sole purpose of giving the Pope 500 florins every turn or so to make sure our relationship is at or near Perfect. I also have the only alliance with the Pope as well. (I'm so popular I wish he would die already!)

So, as long as you are willing to buy your friends in M2TW then you will never be excommunicated. Also, I feel it's easier to call for crusades.

I must really suck at the diplomacy side of this game, or I just don't understand the parameters. I can not get the Pope to accept a cash payment. I'm at the neutral scale of the Pope-o-Meter (something like 4 crosses... he has "no feelings one way or another" about me), and the diplo making the attempt is ranked 5 in diplomacy. He just won't take any money, period.

There are several things that might be affecting this, but I'm not sure. One is that I'm the most powerful faction overall, which I know down-rates all relations with other factions a little. The other is that I've wiped out the Moors (as Spain) but several of those provinces are still heavily Islamic. Maybe I need to convert all my provinces to high Catholic levels before he'll deal with me? Finally, I have a bunch of priests I'm training up, but only one is sitting on the college of Cardinals. Maybe it takes more to get the Pope to accept a payment? I can't figure this out.

P.S. I am also under the "don't attack" mission in the thread title, but I haven't violated it yet.

P.P.S. Man, I am so looking forward to playing the Turks and not having to deal with the @$#% Pope.

[Beefeater]

Zeneticus - you haven't said whether you are using the 'give gift' button (the little wrapped present) or just offering cash and clicking 'make offer'. If it's the latter, you aren't actually offering the money as a gift, you're offering the cash in exchange for whatever the Pope can give you that he thinks is worth the amount of money you're throwing at him. If he can't think of anything suitable he'll turn it down.

On several games on VH/VH I have yet to have the pope refuse a gift except when I am excommunicated, and even then a suitably large gift can help.

[mor dan]

what is:

iirc?

[Zenicetus]

Beefeater, you're right... <slapping head> I was ignoring the "gift" button... hadn't noticed it in the interface. The Pope is now taking cash gifts. Yes, I do suck at diplomacy, but I will get better. and thanks for the tip!

Mor dan, "IIRC" means "if I recall (or remember) correctly".

[econ21]

Also I think if you attack troops that are on your land you break the mission.

Like the original poster, I just did this - did not get excommed and the mission still stands. I am inclined towards thinking the Pope regards this as defensive (as indeed it was). Pre-patch I think I have maintained a siege and been excommed though (which seems fair enough as that is definitely offensive).

[Mega Dux Bob]

Beefeater, you're right... <slapping head> I was ignoring the "gift" button... hadn't noticed it in the interface. The Pope is now taking cash gifts. Yes, I do suck at diplomacy, but I will get better. and thanks for the tip!

Mor dan, "IIRC" means "if I recall (or remember) correctly".

Building cathedrals also gets you on the Pope's good side. Also making as many priests as you can so you control the Collage of Cardinals so your man becomes Pope works pretty good at keeping at ensuring Papal pleasure.

[Zenicetus]

Building cathedrals also gets you on the Pope's good side. Also making as many priests as you can so you control the Collage of Cardinals so your man becomes Pope works pretty good at keeping at ensuring Papal pleasure.

I got a bump in papal relations after burning a witch with one of my priests, so he likes that too.

Now that I finally learned how to hit the cash gift button (duh!), that seems the way to go, at least in the mid-game when money starts to be less of a problem. I went from 5 crosses to "perfect" relations with the Pope by gifting a 300 per turn tribute for 5 turns. It's almost a little too easy... but for now, I'm not complaining.

Give me another few weeks with the game, and I'll be calling this an exploit...

[Wallas]

When the game starts I go to the pope. I make an alliance and put up a pay tribute of 500 for 1000 turns.

After that you will keep perfect relations to the pope easily. And the pope generally tells you to stop hostilities or the relations will be worse. Not threatening with excommunication. If you still attack. You will lose one level from the pope-o-meter, but it will rise soon because of your tribute.

[knoddy]

Like the original poster, I just did this - did not get excommed and the mission still stands. I am inclined towards thinking the Pope regards this as defensive (as indeed it was). Pre-patch I think I have maintained a siege and been excommed though (which seems fair enough as that is definitely offensive).

pre patch in my english camp i maintained a seige without failing the mission. i was besigeing a spanish castle, pope told me to stop hostilities, so i left the castle seiged, 5 turns later i go the sucess mission message, then took the castle and got another warning mission :P

Cheers knoddy

[econ21]

pre patch in my english camp i maintained a seige without failing the mission...

OK, so perhaps the key thing is that the town should not fall during the duration of the mission? If it falls after, it's ok. So maintaining the siege is not against the rules, but it falling due to a siege is?

[Daveybaby]

Pre-patch i also definitely noticed that both you and the AI could maintain sieges (and naval blockades) that were started before the nonagression mission was handed out. As long as you didnt actually assault the castle you were ok.

Post patch i havent had a chance to check, but if its still around I think its gotta be a bug - maintaining a siege or blockade is definitely an act of agression whetever way you slice it. I'm guessing that since nothing is actually changing if you or the AI maintain the siege, there is nothing that triggers the failed mission event.

I wonder if maintaining a siege long enough that the city surrenders would trigger a failed mission - havent had that happen often on H or VH.

[gardibolt]

I have been keeping my papal relations Perfect most of the time, gone on several crusades, gifted money every turn, all of the popes have been from my faction since the first one died, and I have totally stacked the College of Cardinals. Yet I can't get an alliance no matter what I offer---the balance always says my proposal is "Very Demanding" and he shoots it down, saying it's not in his best interests. Do you have to offer the pope territories?

[Von Nanega]

Check your diplomacy screen. You might be en enemy of someone the pope is allies with.

[chunkynut]

Check your diplomacy screen. You might be en enemy of someone the pope is allies with.

I had a weird thing in my first campaign when trying to ally with the Pope, took ages and I didn't have the option. Then when i did and managed to ally, the diplomatic messages came up (i.e. peace between you and another faction or a break of an alliance somewhere) and France who was an ally before I destroyed them came up in a message saying they were at peace with me .... even though I had destroyed them years before.

It happened again as the Danish and the English were destroyed and when getting the HRE as my vassals I was again at peace with a destroyed faction

[gardibolt]

That may be it---I think the Pope is at war with Sicily, and I was allied with them until recently. I will check again and see if the outlook is any better now that I am no longer allied with the Pope's enemy....