Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 389

Thread: MTW Pocket Mod: General

  1. #31

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Hi Guys
    have been a little busy of late so not had much chance to put in to practice the changes mentioned. I've had one other question come to mind and wanted to get your ideas on it. In my current game I'm playing as the turks in high period. It's now 1389 and I've had the injection of otto troops for the late period but was very disappointed that Janisary troops are only available in the one province that the MA is built in. I think this seems really unfair and might change this, any thoughts on this and the best way to implement it?

  2. #32

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    A difficult one. The Janissaries were historically elite troops only produced in Istanbul IIRC. The valour bonus for the archers in Georgia and the heavies in Bulgaria are rather pointless. Though the youths may have been 'recruited' from these regions, they weren't trained there. There shouldn't really be any valour bonuses for them, as they're tough enough as they are. As to restricting them to production in Constantinople only, I'm not in favour of that. Since MTW doesn't follow history exactly and since these type of slave troops could have been relocated easily it makes sense to leave a few possible turkish 'homeland' provinces open for recruitment.

    As to multiples. I'm not so sure about that. If they become too common they become a bit of an exploit.

    I have always modded the Janissaries to Late period only, due to the Janissary corps being founded by Murat I in the mid to late 14th century.

  3. #33

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Very interesting thread, I like many of the modding suggestions shown.
    Only I have to warn that VH should have been fixed the differences between heavy cavalry that Caravel noted some post before: In XL mod Kataphraktoi and Khwarazmians have the same speed and same charge bonus.

    About the removal of syrian valour bonus for assassins- I don't think it's a good idea - it's a balancing factor in all campaigns where a faction takes too soon the supremacy. If you own Syria, you may sit and wait with a good chance to kill the enemy leader and his heirs and, most of times, 12-14 killers will make your day and return you a fair campaign game.

    One tip about the GNome editor; I found that sometimes, for little editing work, the notepad has more chance of success.

    Greetings
    Last edited by OmarPacha; 09-26-2006 at 00:05.

  4. #34
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Is that the Valour bonus for Aragon, Fire Galleys? And it's standard Galleys for Venice right?
    Aragon gives a bonus for gungalleys.
    Venice for standard galleys.

    Do the ship bonuses actually do anything? Ships don't have valour, just command stars. I could be wrong, but I think I recall building a couple of dhows in Tunesia in an Almohad campaign and most of them didn't have command stars when freshly built.
    Another thing about ships: is it historical for the Italians to have acces to fire galleys? I also thought that it was kinda odd for the Byzantines not to have a single vessel that can travel through deep sea...

    Trebizond archers can be recruited anywhere with the Byzantines, wich doesn't make sense. Better would be to give them a more generic name like "Byzantine toxatoi" (literally archers) and keep the bonus in Trebizond.

    For more valour bonuses, perhaps:
    Normandy for Feudal knights
    Flanders for militia sergeants and maybe pikemen*
    Algeria or Tunesia for Murabutin and/or Muwahid infantry
    Arabia for Arab infantry and/or Imams and/or Bedouin camels

    * the bonus in Tyrolia should be removed, it's redundant as Swiss pikemen are available so nearby. Pikemen should be reworked to be available earlier and made stronger as they're useless in vanilla. Personally I made them available with the lvl 3 militia building (at citadel level) + spearmaker lvl 3 and their stats are now 4 charge, 1 attack, 1 defense, 4 morale. They're still not uber but can usually defeat spearmen from the front.

  5. #35

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    Aragon gives a bonus for gungalleys.
    Venice for standard galleys.

    Do the ship bonuses actually do anything? Ships don't have valour, just command stars. I could be wrong, but I think I recall building a couple of dhows in Tunesia in an Almohad campaign and most of them didn't have command stars when freshly built.
    They do have effect. Ships produced in those provinces have 3 command stars to start with IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    Another thing about ships: is it historical for the Italians to have acces to fire galleys? I also thought that it was kinda odd for the Byzantines not to have a single vessel that can travel through deep sea...
    I would say that it wasn't historically accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    Trebizond archers can be recruited anywhere with the Byzantines, wich doesn't make sense. Better would be to give them a more generic name like "Byzantine toxatoi" (literally archers) and keep the bonus in Trebizond.
    Good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    For more valour bonuses, perhaps:
    Normandy for Feudal knights
    Flanders for militia sergeants and maybe pikemen*

    * the bonus in Tyrolia should be removed, it's redundant as Swiss pikemen are available so nearby. Pikemen should be reworked to be available earlier and made stronger as they're useless in vanilla. Personally I made them available with the lvl 3 militia building (at citadel level) + spearmaker lvl 3 and their stats are now 4 charge, 1 attack, 1 defense, 4 morale. They're still not uber but can usually defeat spearmen from the front.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    Algeria or Tunesia for Murabutin and/or Muwahid infantry
    Arabia for Arab infantry and/or Imams and/or Bedouin camels
    I've already given Muwahid a valour bonus in algeria and Murabitin in Morocco.

  6. #36

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Does anyone fancy creating a list of all the suggestions in this thread, taking out the duplications and then I'll implement them in my current game and report back?

    ps: I did a bad thing today....I bought Rome Total War Gold Edition

  7. #37

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Third spearman from the left
    Does anyone fancy creating a list of all the suggestions in this thread, taking out the duplications and then I'll implement them in my current game and report back?
    I'll try to do that tonight if I have time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Third spearman from the left
    ps: I did a bad thing today....I bought Rome Total War Gold Edition
    Well considering you're working on some MTW modding, we'll put off your execution until next month.

    Seriously it's not that bad, but you'll probably need to install a realism/balancing mod, because as it is, it plays like it's been designed for 5 year olds.

  8. #38
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Third spearman from the left
    Does anyone fancy creating a list of all the suggestions in this thread, taking out the duplications and then I'll implement them in my current game and report back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    I'll try to do that tonight if I have time
    Caravel, if you don't get a chance to do it, just PM me. I should have some free time tonight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Third spearman from the left
    ps: I did a bad thing today....I bought Rome Total War Gold Edition
    "Tar and feather him! Boil him in oil!"

    But seriously, yeah you'll want to take Caravel's suggestion and download one of the realism mods, either RTR or EB. The latter seems to particularly popular lately, so that might be the one you should try out.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  9. #39
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    9,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Lightbulb Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    But seriously, yeah you'll want to take Caravel's suggestion and download one of the realism mods, either RTR or EB. The latter seems to particularly popular lately, so that might be the one you should try out.
    The current version of EB won't work with R:TW Gold: it requires R:TW 1.2. However, the port to R:TW 1.5/Gold (EB 0.8) is almost ready. The same goes for the official R:TR release (R:TR Gold), but there is an unofficial port (R:TR Platinum Edition) that does work with 1.5.
    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

  10. #40
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Caravel: Most of the ideas in the summary are good, but I wouldn't give the Almohads acces to Armoured Spearmen. One of the unique features of an Almohad campaign is that you can't simply use lots of spearmen to form a sturdy phalanx and circle your cavalry around it, you'll have to better and improvise a lot.
    I think your idea for pavise crossbowmen/arbalesters is excellent, though.

    I suggest a name change for the Hashishin. The Hashishin (or Nizari, they're actually the same...) were an independent sectarian faction that you would never find fighting for the Seljuks, Egyptians or Almohads.
    I think that Fedayeen would be a better name choice. This name was given to various islamic warriors throughout history, most recently a Baath militia in Iraq (not a fine example, I know). The name apparently means "one who is ready to sacrifice his life" according to Wikipedia
    (as a side note, in Dune the Fedaykin (a distortion of the name) were Paul Muad'Dibs personally trained commandos)

  11. #41
    Dismembered Member Marquis de Said's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    181

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Why not, instead of giving Armoured Spearmen to Russians and Novgorod, just make Rus Spearmen buildable in all eras by both factions? That way these factions would have their own unique spear unit that is virtually identical to Armoured Spearmen. You could also give them a bonus in Novgorod or Kiev.

    Other suggestions for province bonuses:
    Szekely in Carpathia or Hungary (I think the Hungarians need a bit of a boost)

    Polish Retainers in Poland

    Lithuanian Cavalry in Lithuania (this would possibly make teching up to the unit worthwhile)

    Byzantine Infantry in Anatolia (the Anatolian heartlands were the main recruiting area for the Byzantine army before the battle of Manzikert)

    Inquisitors/Grand Inquisitors/Cardinals in Rome (this would make sense, plus it would make the Pope more annoying than he is already, increasing the fun of wiping him out)

    Slav Warriors in one of the eastern European provinces or possibly in Serbia

    Druzhina Cavalry in one of the Russian provinces

    Woodsmen in Finland (this would make the province more attractive)

    Can anyone suggest a province that was famous for its Mounted Crossbowmen? This unit is a favourite of mine, and I would love to give it a bonus somewhere.

    On another note, there was another thread some time ago where the pros and cons of assigning bonuses were discussed, and someone mentioned that giving a province a bonus may actually hinder the AI. Apparently the AI will only tech up to the unit with the bonus and stop building anything in the province after that. So that might be something to research more and consider.
    "Non nobis Domine non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam"
    (Not to n00bs, o Lord, not to n00bs, but to your Name give glory)

  12. #42

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Why not, instead of giving Armoured Spearmen to Russians and Novgorod, just make Rus Spearmen buildable in all eras by both factions? That way these factions would have their own unique spear unit that is virtually identical to Armoured Spearmen. You could also give them a bonus in Novgorod or Kiev.
    A very good point. Changed the listing for Armoured Spearmen. The issue of Rus Spearmen is another problem. I'm not sure of their historical accuracy. Also they don't fit the high and late periods. I believe they are simply a gap filler put in place by CA, whom of which seemed to designate alot of units as "spearmen" in order to fit the rock/paper/scissors agenda. Saracens are a good example of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Other suggestions for province bonuses:
    Szekely in Carpathia or Hungary (I think the Hungarians need a bit of a boost)

    Polish Retainers in Poland

    Lithuanian Cavalry in Lithuania (this would possibly make teching up to the unit worthwhile)
    Added to the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Byzantine Infantry in Anatolia (the Anatolian heartlands were the main recruiting area for the Byzantine army before the battle of Manzikert)
    Ah... now we hit an obstacle. Byzantine Infantry are probably one of the most historically innacurate unit in the game. Their armour does resemble that of a late kataphraktoi cavalryman, but they appear as footsoldiers with eastern style shields, and short curved swords. I don't profess to be a medieval military history expert, but they are simple fantasy units. The Byzantine didn't deploy this type of infantry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Inquisitors/Grand Inquisitors/Cardinals in Rome (this would make sense, plus it would make the Pope more annoying than he is already, increasing the fun of wiping him out)
    An idea, but as I've stated before, Inquisitors tend to hit the AI more than they do the player. The AI also sends it's own Inquisitors against it's own generals based on low piety and nothing else. So a superb general that hasn't read the bible in a while could end up being roasted by his own faction's inquisitor. Inquisitors are also overpowered anyway. The player can exploit them horrendously, which is why I wouldn't overpower them even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Slav Warriors in one of the eastern European provinces or possibly in Serbia
    Good one. Or Bohemia, or Poland perhaps? I'll add this to the list once we get some more ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Druzhina Cavalry in one of the Russian provinces
    Muscovy perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Woodsmen in Finland (this would make the province more attractive)
    I don't see any reason why not. Though they already have one in Lithuania. Maybe remove that one once the one for Lithuanian cavalry is in place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    Can anyone suggest a province that was famous for its Mounted Crossbowmen? This unit is a favourite of mine, and I would love to give it a bonus somewhere.
    I know that the Burgundians, Genoese, Venitians and HRE made use of these, but I'm not sure if any province was exactly famous for them. The crossbow wasn't difficult to use and often considered dishonourable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
    On another note, there was another thread some time ago where the pros and cons of assigning bonuses were discussed, and someone mentioned that giving a province a bonus may actually hinder the AI. Apparently the AI will only tech up to the unit with the bonus and stop building anything in the province after that. So that might be something to research more and consider.
    I've heard of this, and I've often wondered if it causes the AI not to build ports or watchtowers in these provinces.
    Last edited by caravel; 10-05-2006 at 08:09.

  13. #43
    Dismembered Member Marquis de Said's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    181

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Has anyone considered making Almughavars buildable by the Aragonese (and maybe the Spanish) in Aragon and possibly also in Navarre?

    I don't know about the unit's historical accuracy, but I've modded them into the vanilla game in the past and they are a really cool unit. Spearmen that throw javelins and have an irresisitible charge. Almost too good to be true!
    "Non nobis Domine non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam"
    (Not to n00bs, o Lord, not to n00bs, but to your Name give glory)

  14. #44
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In ur nun, causing a bloody schism!
    Posts
    7,906

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    In an earlier version of XL I let the byzzies build the armored version because they would always be steamrolled by the Eggys. Plus they're great fun to play with. However, if I face them on the battlefield, I make sure I kill them first.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  15. #45
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Looks good, Caravel! You've already covered just about everything I can think of, and then some.

    I did come up with one other idea, but it might be a bit ham-handed. Since the Spanish were reknowned for their steel, I think it would be cool if one of the northern Iberian provinces (probably Aragon, Navarre, or Valencia) was able to train either FMAA or CMAA with a valour bonus. I realize this is already somewhat reflected by most Spanish provinces having iron deposits (thus allowing the owners of said provinces to build a Metalsmith improving units' attacking abilities), but I think it would still be nice if one of those provinces gave a more direct bonus to infantry trained there. Just a thought, anyway.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  16. #46

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Not sure about the FMAA/CMAA valour bonuses being in Iberia. Could put them in Navarre, but that hardly seems like the sort of province to be famous for such infantry.

    I probably won't be working on this again until sunday, when I'll update the listing to be alphabetical and add some more ideas. There are alot of unconfirmed ideas there that need more input.
    Last edited by caravel; 10-06-2006 at 16:58.

  17. #47
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In ur nun, causing a bloody schism!
    Posts
    7,906

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Well if you really want to put something there than maybe Spanish javelinmen?


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  18. #48
    Philosophically Inclined Member CountMRVHS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    481

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    For my Charlemagne-era mod, I wanted to make a Basque faction, so I gave them Navarre. Not knowing anything about the Basques of the period, I figured I'd give them some kind of fanatical low-tech infantry, so I made Highland Clansmen trainable in Navarre as well as Scotland. I know I know it's unhistorical as heck but it works for me, for now, without having to create a new unit. A bonus is that the unit description for clansmen doesn't mention Scotland specifically at all.

    Anyway, I made the change in crusaders_unit.txt so it ended up carrying through to my regular vanilla campaigns, with the consequence that now I see the Spanish are training some clansmen in their armies. Personally I think it's a neat touch, so I think I'll keep it. But anyone who knows more about the Basques could certainly correct me; I'd be interested to hear what they *actually* used.

    Just an idea; probably not everyone's cup of tea. There are certainly other ways to reflect what I'm trying to do, with re-named units such as Celtic/Slav Warriors, etc.

    CountMRVHS

  19. #49
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS
    For my Charlemagne-era mod, I wanted to make a Basque faction, so I gave them Navarre. Not knowing anything about the Basques of the period, I figured I'd give them some kind of fanatical low-tech infantry, so I made Highland Clansmen trainable in Navarre as well as Scotland. I know I know it's unhistorical as heck but it works for me, for now, without having to create a new unit. A bonus is that the unit description for clansmen doesn't mention Scotland specifically at all.

    Anyway, I made the change in crusaders_unit.txt so it ended up carrying through to my regular vanilla campaigns, with the consequence that now I see the Spanish are training some clansmen in their armies. Personally I think it's a neat touch, so I think I'll keep it. But anyone who knows more about the Basques could certainly correct me; I'd be interested to hear what they *actually* used.

    Just an idea; probably not everyone's cup of tea. There are certainly other ways to reflect what I'm trying to do, with re-named units such as Celtic/Slav Warriors, etc.

    CountMRVHS
    If you wanted to make it a bit more historical, you could move the Highlanders from Navarre to Leon. There was a fairly strong Celtic culture in Leon at one point, although only remnants of it now remain. It's a thought, anyway.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  20. #50
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    9,103

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Rather than post this in another thread.

    I was thinking of possibly using the Inn structure as a "Levy Raising Structure". By this I mean that it can hire one type of unit and one only, a militia or levy. A Levy unit would be cheap and not very effective. But this would symbolise the Feudal society, and would be a good addition in my eyes, not to mention historical.

    The only way to get this working would be reduce the Merc penalties that certain buildings great (BUILD_PROD files) and increase the Inn Merc attractivity (BUILD_PROD files).

    I may implement this in my game.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  21. #51

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    **slaughters chickens, draws pentagram, resurrects thread**

    I was thinking previously of putting the Inn to some use, but couldn't think of anything. I had throught of redesigning the assassin/spy tech tree and having the Inn as the lowest building capable of producing both at 0 valour, then having the brothels and taverns for upgrades. I'd given up on that though after having the gnome editor corrupt my crusader_build_prod11.txt a few times...

    Using it for basic levy troops is an idea. Personally I don't use mercs so I've usually modded Inns out of the game in the past. The AI can't make use of them so I don't bother either. Mercs always feel a bit cheap and nasty also.

    I've been playing through a few campaigns with the XL mod and am quite impressed. It has improved somewhat from what I remember, though it was always a good mod. I may start to mod this, instead of modding vanilla MTW/VI, but haven't decided yet. I need to redo everything and fix a few landbridges and the Sahara province, before I get onto valour bonuses and unit availablity again.

  22. #52
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    **slaughters chickens, draws pentagram, resurrects thread**
    Ah, but did you remember to chant backwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Using it for basic levy troops is an idea. Personally I don't use mercs so I've usually modded Inns out of the game in the past. The AI can't make use of them so I don't bother either. Mercs always feel a bit cheap and nasty also.
    I would be inclined to agree with you there, especially since (as you said) the AI doesn't make use of mercenaries. I confess, however, that I find inns to be moderately useful--if only because they enable me to hire artillery crews early on. I'm not sure how to reconcile that, as personally I dislike restricting access to merc, particularly in the Early period. Still, I rather like the idea overall.

    Also: What do you consider to be "basic levy troops"? UM and vanilla spearmen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    I've been playing through a few campaigns with the XL mod and am quite impressed. It has improved somewhat from what I remember, though it was always a good mod. I may start to mod this, instead of modding vanilla MTW/VI, but haven't decided yet. I need to redo everything and fix a few landbridges and the Sahara province, before I get onto valour bonuses and unit availablity again.
    Which landbridges are you altering?
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  23. #53

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Ah, but did you remember to chant backwards?


    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I would be inclined to agree with you there, especially since (as you said) the AI doesn't make use of mercenaries. I confess, however, that I find inns to be moderately useful--if only because they enable me to hire artillery crews early on. I'm not sure how to reconcile that, as personally I dislike restricting access to merc, particularly in the Early period. Still, I rather like the idea overall.
    I suppose the merc artillery thing doesn't affect me so much. I rarely fight sieges and hardly even build the siege engineer. I just don't like how MTW manages sieges at all, nor can I see much use in any of the siege equipment apart from an occasional catapult. The biggest problem I have is that archers cannot mount the walls, this to me makes the whole thing redundant. Also the stupidity of the AI while assaulting makes it quite unfair. (sending in 1 unit at a time to be shot to pieces etc, breaking the wall then walking away and coming back again, or going around the back to break the wall, then coming back to the front again... arghhhhhhhh... need I go on?). So I avoid sieges and anything to do with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Also: What do you consider to be "basic levy troops"? UM and vanilla spearmen?
    I suppose, UM's, spearmen and peasants would be basic levy troops. Though wouldn't archers be levy troops in some cases also?


    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Which landbridges are you altering?
    XL appears to have most landbridges altered already. I'll have to check Sicily/Naples and Sardinia/Corsica, I can't remember if they're disconnected or not (I've only played a little as the Irish, the Volga Bulgars and the Hospitallers so far). Apart from that it's ok. I need to add the Finland/Sweden one as well, and enable the Sahara province of course.

    Once I get back to using my own internet connection (house move, phone line change (what a house move this turned out to be!)) I'll host whatever we come up with here for download so that people can test it out. I suppose I should work on an XL version and a non XL version, though I'm not sure I'll have the time to do the latter.

  24. #54
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    The biggest problem I have is that archers cannot mount the walls, this to me makes the whole thing redundant. Also the stupidity of the AI while assaulting makes it quite unfair. (sending in 1 unit at a time to be shot to pieces etc, breaking the wall then walking away and coming back again, or going around the back to break the wall, then coming back to the front again... arghhhhhhhh... need I go on?).
    I wouldn't really know. The AI assaults castles so rarely in my games, it's hard to make a comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    I suppose, UM's, spearmen and peasants would be basic levy troops. Though wouldn't archers be levy troops in some cases also?
    Well that's what I was wondering. Surely in the case of the English and the Muslim factions, I would think that at least vanilla archers would be levies. I'm no historian, however, so I couldn't say for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    XL appears to have most landbridges altered already. I'll have to check Sicily/Naples and Sardinia/Corsica, I can't remember if they're disconnected or not (I've only played a little as the Irish, the Volga Bulgars and the Hospitallers so far). Apart from that it's ok. I need to add the Finland/Sweden one as well, and enable the Sahara province of course.
    I know that XL removed most of the landbridges (except for the one from Denmark to Skania), but I also think VikingHorde's patch restored a couple of them. I'm drawing a blank on which ones, though. Still, about the only other place where I could see having a landbridge (aside from the aforementioned Dennark-Skania link) would be Constantinople-Nicea....but that's only a maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Once I get back to using my own internet connection (house move, phone line change (what a house move this turned out to be!)) I'll host whatever we come up with here for download so that people can test it out. I suppose I should work on an XL version and a non XL version, though I'm not sure I'll have the time to do the latter.
    Sounds good. I'll be more than happy to try it out.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  25. #55

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I wouldn't really know. The AI assaults castles so rarely in my games, it's hard to make a comparison.
    I tend to retreat to castles alot instead of fighting, then I bring in troops to relive them, so maybe I see more attempted assaults. I've grown quite accustomed to fighting them off or at least ensuring that the AI pays dearly for their victory. If I'm a muslim faction I often use this as an excuse to Jihad.


    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Well that's what I was wondering. Surely in the case of the English and the Muslim factions, I would think that at least vanilla archers would be levies. I'm no historian, however, so I couldn't say for sure.
    I'm pretty sure that Archers were levied at least in England. I'm not at all sure about muslim factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I know that XL removed most of the landbridges (except for the one from Denmark to Skania), but I also think VikingHorde's patch restored a couple of them. I'm drawing a blank on which ones, though. Still, about the only other place where I could see having a landbridge (aside from the aforementioned Dennark-Skania link) would be Constantinople-Nicea....but that's only a maybe.
    I haven't had the chance to check which landbridges are intact and which aren't. I do feel that Nicaea and Constantinople should not be a land bridge but should be divided by sea. VH made a good job of that area as far as I can tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Sounds good. I'll be more than happy to try it out.

  26. #56

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    It appears as though VH reused the "ID_AFRICA" province as the new Mesopotamia province, so enabling Sahara for XL is not going to be quite as simple...

  27. #57
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Gah! Sorry Caravel. I'm pretty sure VH had said something about that previously, but I didn't think of it until your mentioning it just now. My apologies for not giving you a heads-up on that. I knew he had maxed out all the provinces for XL, but I'd forgotten that little bit (about using the Africa province slot for Mesopotamia).
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  28. #58

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Gah! Sorry Caravel. I'm pretty sure VH had said something about that previously, but I didn't think of it until your mentioning it just now. My apologies for not giving you a heads-up on that. I knew he had maxed out all the provinces for XL, but I'd forgotten that little bit (about using the Africa province slot for Mesopotamia).
    No worries!

    I quite like the Mesopotamia province, but I do think that the Sahara province should have been retained and one of the other extra provinces (such as Estonia or Savoy) could have been done away with. I say this because it helps to break up the straight line of provinces that exists accross North Africa. In Vanilla MTW a Crusades would cut through that area devastating it in a linear fashion. With the Sahara province enabled a crusade can go to Cyrenacia avoiding Algeria and Tunisia by cutting through the Sahara instead.

    I'm also not keen on the Khazar/Lesser Khazar situation. Khazaar is now landlocked and it's one time trading potential lost.

    As I've said before, mods are all well and good but the personalisations are often enough to be quite offputting to the end user who may see things from an wholly different perspective.

    Also I noticed that I can't train Bedouin Camels in Mesopotamia.

  29. #59
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    I quite like the Mesopotamia province, but I do think that the Sahara province should have been retained and one of the other extra provinces (such as Estonia or Savoy) could have been done away with. I say this because it helps to break up the straight line of provinces that exists accross North Africa. In Vanilla MTW a Crusades would cut through that area devastating it in a linear fashion. With the Sahara province enabled a crusade can go to Cyrenacia avoiding Algeria and Tunisia by cutting through the Sahara instead.
    That's a valid point. Goodness knows I've taken advantage of the "linear-ness" of North Africa often enough as the Spanish (and occasionally as the Portuguese), so I can't claim to not know what you're talking about.

    As far as which province to eliminate, I would personally suggest Estonia (although Savoy's probably a good choice as well). It seems to possess only minimal strategic value, and it's not as if the Novgorods or any of the Scandanavian factions really need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    I'm also not keen on the Khazar/Lesser Khazar situation. Khazaar is now landlocked and it's one time trading potential lost.
    I hear where you're coming from. I suspect, however, that VikingHorde did that to give the Cumans another province--which in my experience they often need. Just my opinion, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    As I've said before, mods are all well and good but the personalisations are often enough to be quite offputting to the end user who may see things from an wholly different perspective.
    I consider myself fortunate in this respect. I'm interested enough in the medieval period to appreciate the improvements the XL mod has made on the original game; but I'm not a scholar either, so I don't notice any glaring errors/omissions that would interfere in my enjoyment of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Also I noticed that I can't train Bedouin Camels in Mesopotamia.
    I hadn't really thought about it in a while (it's been some time since I played as the Fatamids), but you're quite right. My guess is that it simply escaped VikingHorde's notice when he was adding the province--it would be fairly odd of him to deliberately preclude camels from being trained there.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  30. #60

    Default Re: New valour bonus regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    That's a valid point. Goodness knows I've taken advantage of the "linear-ness" of North Africa often enough as the Spanish (and occasionally as the Portuguese), so I can't claim to not know what you're talking about.
    I hate the province layout in the region, and I do feel it needs an extra province. The Sahara is there and usable. I have reverted back to vanilla MTW/VI 2.01 now. If anything does come of our efforts here, then this mini-mod or at least this information will be available to the wider vanilla userbase and not just XL users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    As far as which province to eliminate, I would personally suggest Estonia (although Savoy's probably a good choice as well). It seems to possess only minimal strategic value, and it's not as if the Novgorods or any of the Scandanavian factions really need it.
    I'd agree, though I don't want to get into messing with provinces. I'd have to combine the lookup map from XL with the one from vanilla in order to remove those provinces then mess about trawling through the code undoing stuff. That's not really my objective as such. New provinces IMHO don't add that much to gameplay, new units and new factions definitely do. Strangely enough the only new province I really appreciate in XL is Mesopotamia. It does make things interesting. Personally I would have joined the County of Edessa to Syria and used the ID_EDESSA province as Mesopotamia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I hear where you're coming from. I suspect, however, that VikingHorde did that to give the Cumans another province--which in my experience they often need. Just my opinion, though.
    Possibly. I'm just not so sure about provinces with that many trade goods being landlocked. On a similar note it would be interesting if local trade good be boosted in value, to make it actually worthwhile, while lessening the value of sea trade at the same time. I haven't really thought about this before...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I consider myself fortunate in this respect. I'm interested enough in the medieval period to appreciate the improvements the XL mod has made on the original game; but I'm not a scholar either, so I don't notice any glaring errors/omissions that would interfere in my enjoyment of it.
    I know what you mean, and I do think that the XL mod does have some very good improvements, many of them contributing to greater historical accuracy. Some of the new units are rather questionable, and the unit balancing is a bit off though. Another problem is that naptha throwers have been removed in favour of the naptha catapult which replaces them. While some may dislike naptha throwers for whatever reason, others may see their absence as a problem. The changes I prefer are those subtle ones, that on the surface don't make much of a difference, but which improve gameplay. Homelands, trade/farm balance, new valour bonus regions, better historical faction/unit naming, landbridge changes, different dismount types for some units, reassignment of certain units to other factions and restriction of others to specific factions, stat changes to some units, are the sort of changes that make a difference in my opinion.

    Another major problem that has had me puzzling for a while is bodyguard units. As they are, they're pretty poor. I am at a loss as to why the Byzantines qualify for a full size unit of Kataphraktoi whereas the Muslim factions have to make do with a non scalable 20 man units of Ghulam Bodyguards. The 20 man units have their pros and cons. Firstly they're small so their support costs are low. This means that having 6 heirs mature one after the other won't break the bank, as it would if each of those units were four times the size. In a campaign as the Volga Bulgars (XL Mod) I had to send alot of my heirs out to fight in the hope they're be killed, and I'd be able to disband their units which were costing me 210 florins in support costs apiece and preventing my economy from getting off the ground. The cons of a 20 man unit is that they're easy victims for missiles, and are quickly beaten and routing, which gives the units leaders alot of the coward type vices. How many times have you simply gunned down the muslim faction leader and his heirs and watched the rest rout off the field??

    The solution in my opinion is to make the 20 man units scalable and reduce the 80 man units (Kataphraktoi, Boyars and Mongol Heavy Cavalry, off the top of my head) down to 20 - also scalable. That way the units scale with whatever unit size the player prefers. That solves the problem for the Muslims, Pagans and Orthodox, but not the catholics. Early Royal Knights are the same as Feudal Knights, the only difference is the unit size. The same goes for High Royal Knights and Chivalric Knights, and Late Royal Knights and Lancers. As I've said earlier in the thread, it would be a good idea to make Lancers available to all factions, as they're simply a Late Medieval Knight type of unit (The Spanish type of Lancers are fantasy). In this way, Royal Knights could be removed altogether and catholic factions could use Feudal/Chivalric/'Lancer' Knights as their bodyguards in a scalable 20 man unit. The tech tree would be adjusted so that Feudal Knights would depend on the first type of Royal Court and not the second, Chivalric would depend on the second and Lancers (who currently don't have a royal court dependency) would depend on the third. The easiest way to do this would be to actually remove the Chivalric Knights, Lancers and Feudal Knights and rename the Royal Knights as Feudal/Chivalric/Lancer and adjust their unit sizes and dependencies accordingly. This sounds a strange way of doing it, but it will preserve the upgradeability of the old type to the new type, which is how the Royal Knight units currently work. The problem with this is that the new Feudal Knights would be unavailable after 1204, and new Chivalric Knights after 1320.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I hadn't really thought about it in a while (it's been some time since I played as the Fatamids), but you're quite right. My guess is that it simply escaped VikingHorde's notice when he was adding the province--it would be fairly odd of him to deliberately preclude camels from being trained there.
    Just something I noticed that's all. I wondered if there was a historical significance. Maybe camels feared the reputation of the Mesopotamians and were reluctant to cross the border?

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO