Catalan Company

**The Wizard** · 12-19-2006, 00:44

Why did they have to be Spanish?

**IrishArmenian** · 12-19-2006, 01:29

They were Catalan/Catalaun.

**The Wizard** · 12-19-2006, 11:07

Indeed, but why did they have to be? I'm curious as to this pronouncement by the original poster.

**SwordsMaster** · 12-19-2006, 15:54

Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on

Indeed, but why did they have to be? I'm curious as to this pronouncement by the original poster.

Well, with people like those it is no wonder they conquered the New World 4 generations later... I mean, if even the Byzantines and Ottomans could not withstand them...

**Vladimir** · 12-19-2006, 18:42

Exactly. It's like he's never seen Gladiator.

**The Wizard** · 12-19-2006, 19:21

Well, I'm not sure, but IIRC most of the soldiers that were Conquistadores, and those that fought for them, came either from Castille or the mountains of Northern Spain. And I'm not sure how many Catalans served in the Spanish army, either... most of them probably in the old Aragonese dominions of the East, which is where the Catalan Company originated (Sicily, to be precise).

**IrishArmenian** · 12-19-2006, 22:32

I thought the Catalans had an unofficial independence, probably becuase I wouldn't want to fight them.

**Papewaio** · 12-20-2006, 22:32

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Well, with people like those it is no wonder they conquered the New World 4 generations later... I mean, if even the Byzantines and Ottomans could not withstand them...

What the Byzantines lost 90% of their people due to small pox

and other western diseases before encountering the Catalans?

The two situations are not quite comparable due to the differences in technology and disease resistance alone. Beating the Byzantines and Ottomans was an achievement of skill at arms. The Americans was one of luck... if the Alaskan land bridge was still functioning at least the locals might have had disease resistance... that or be a Chinese/Japanese/Korean stronghold...

**SwordsMaster** · 12-21-2006, 13:50

Originally Posted by Papewaio

What the Byzantines lost 90% of their people due to small pox

and other western diseases before encountering the Catalans?

The two situations are not quite comparable due to the differences in technology and disease resistance alone. Beating the Byzantines and Ottomans was an achievement of skill at arms. The Americans was one of luck... if the Alaskan land bridge was still functioning at least the locals might have had disease resistance... that or be a Chinese/Japanese/Korean stronghold...

You can't seriously blame colonisation of a whole continent on smallpox... Speaking of skills of arms, the spanish were so profficient with rapier and main-gauche dagger that many times their enemies refused to accept duels with these weapons from spanish soldiers and officers.

Later, in the XVI and XVII century, the spanish soldiers were so feared, there were times enemy soldiers would desert when they learned it was a spanish tercio they were facing.

**Papewaio** · 12-22-2006, 06:08

There were entire villages and nations that had no one left alive because of the spread of western diseases advanced quicker then the westerners themselves.

The diseases were enough to significantly weaken any nation that might have had a chance in putting up a moderate fight.

**Kraxis** · 12-22-2006, 14:30

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

You can't seriously blame colonisation of a whole continent on smallpox...

Now remember that in Europe smallpox had a fatalityrate of ca. 30%. That is plenty bad to devastate any nation if it is an epidemic.
However in the New World there was no inherent defense to it. 80-100% was the norm (though of course 100% is not literal, just effectwise)... Tell me if any people can resist if they have 20% of their population left?
Why is it that within a few years the central American population dwindled from about 20 million to 2 million? Either the Spanish spent all their days killing people (industrialscale killing is pretty hard when you have only got muskets and swords), or something else did it.

Sure, the conquistadores did a swell job. They were outnumbered heavily, and when they faced their enemies initially there was no smallpox. However bythe time of the siege of Tenochtitlan it was over for the Aztecs...