The pope in Jerusalem

[daffius]

I started out a campaign as the HRE empire. Thought it might be fun, having played the relatively safe realms of scotland and denmark.

My main aim was survival. My goal was to keep as many fronts safe as possible and also to keep the pope happy as much as I can. Though job for the HRE.
So first I only attack rebel provinces and take part of my forces down to Italy. The other part north to conquer rebel provinces. I didn’t even go for Prague or Magdeburg. I knew that that would lead to war with Poland and Hungary. I rush to Hamburg, plus I take Antwerp. In Italy I take Florence and then start securing my realm. I marry princess of France. Alliance with Hungary and Poland. I’m building churches, my relations with the pope is not declineing. Everything is going as planned...

Suddenly Venice declares war, I quickly counter and take venezia and sue for peace. Mean while the danes also attack Hamburg, which was lightly guarded. I manage to keep it, and gather mostly militia from around and attack them. I was attacked by both yet my standings with the pope is declining, despite me doing all papal quests. Train priests, build church, and the sort. In fact when I’m about to sack the danes from aarhus, suddenly the pope tells me to stop or I’ll be excommunicated. I’m like ok, don’t want all catholics on my back yet.

Meanwhile I take Metz and lay siege to Bern. Which oddly has not yet been taken.
Immediately I take Bern, Milan declares war (trigger?) and Sicily also. I still have to keep a force up North because the Danes won’t accept cease fire. I take all my forces (except hamburg) and I’m fighting the 3 Italian states.
Suddenly the Pope dies... New hopes. Yet the new pope says the damnations of hell are too good for me. Why???

Crusade! Not as if I have spare forces, but I gather my general and some militia, just enough to form a crusading army and go for Jerusalem.

Before I can take Jerusalem I get excommunicated for destroying Milan. So that’s when I decide that there is nothing I can do for the papacy to „like” me. I therefore declare war. The irony of it all... I conquer Jerusalem, the same turn that I conquer Rome. Naturally I kill the pope and a new pope is elected.

(short question: if I had a cardinal, sooner or later if I continue killing the pope, he would be elected right? What happens if there are no cardinals left?)

The new pope hates me all the same. But since Rome is mine, and Hungary and Poland attacked I am suing for peace.
The trick... I offer peace to the pope, offering Jerusalem and a huge pile of cash $ He accepts! And that’s how the papacy came into being in Jerusalem!!!!!! Let him keep the Holy land if he wants it soo much...

I learnt my lesson. There is nothing you can do as HRE to prevent the pope from hating you.

[Dearmad]

Every turn there is a diplomacy negative hit between the HRE and the Pope in the strategy game file. So, you're right.

There is a similar +diplo between France and Scotland that helps keep them as allies. Another negative one between the Moors and Spain...

[knoddy]

Every turn there is a diplomacy negative hit between the HRE and the Pope in the strategy game file. So, you're right.

There is a similar +diplo between France and Scotland that helps keep them as allies. Another negative one between the Moors and Spain...

in my scottish game france hated me and ended up getting excomuted for attacking me so much lol.

[Bob the Insane]

Every turn there is a diplomacy negative hit between the HRE and the Pope in the strategy game file. So, you're right.

There is a similar +diplo between France and Scotland that helps keep them as allies. Another negative one between the Moors and Spain...

Is that applied every turn? I though it was just the starting relationships settings... If applied every turn they are pretty dramatic as the relationship range only goes from 1.0 to -1.0...

[Naefen]

Playing the HRE aswell. I am well aware of the declining diplomatic standing with most (if not all...) of the kingdoms surrounding me. The trick is to pick a main ally and keep paying a regular tribute to them so your standing with them dont decrease.

Aswell as doing the same thing with the Papacy ofcourse. That is, until you descide to realize the Holy Roman dream and take your beloved Rome back

From a HRE perspective the world is filled to the brim with dirty backstabbing kings on all fronts. They hate your guts and all you can do is brace yourself and retaliate. Ive been backstabbed by just about every half-witted, inbred, rabblerousing king out there hehehehe.... And I love it.

Currently allied with the Byzantine Empire and have been so for around 40 rounds. My borders are closing in on theirs fast so my guess is they will feel uncomfortable in about 5-6 turns.

[Basileus]

I always keept it at Perfect in my HRE campaign, even if say Venice attacks you you shouldnt attack back untill their relation with the pope goes down and it will as long you keep yours high..in the end they will get excommunicated and its free to go attack. You can not be an aggressor as HRE, just defend and when the oppurtunite arrises go for it.

Its wise to expect evryone you have a border with to attack you, cause they will and if youre using the new patch expect factions which you have no border with to invade as well occasionally.

[sapi]

Hmmm - sounds like you're playing a different game to me ;P

I'm finding the HRE to be my easiest campaign yet - iirc it's turn 20, i have 18 provinces, venice is almost dead, i've carved into france and poland (i'm excommunicated obviously) and i'm playing on with no problems.

In fact, i'm finding it so boring i've jumped to the egyptians, where i hold byzantium, turkey, the holy lands, the nile lands and greece at turn 30.

Maybe it's just my play style, but i'm yet to feel that my back is to the wall as anyone :(

[Bob the Insane]

Playing the HRE aswell. I am well aware of the declining diplomatic standing with most (if not all...) of the kingdoms surrounding me. The trick is to pick a main ally and keep paying a regular tribute to them so your standing with them dont decrease.

Hard or Very Hard campaign right? That is one of the big causing of declining relationships right there. Even Normal difficulty with cause them to decline slowly, but only to neutral. In my Hard campaign game as the HRE I found occasional gifts of around 500fl to the Dane, Polish and Hungrarians kept them off my back for a long time while I dealt with the Italian factions in my attempt to reclaim the gory that was Rome...

I mean I never gifted money that I needed for something else, but when you are already building something in every province and have loads of troops and have a couple of thousand florins left over, it is a useful investment to keep the peace while you build up and fight on other fronts. But I think you need to let the Danes have Hamberg as it is there only path for expansion and if you take it then it does not matter how much money you give them you will have Danish troops marching all over your northern lands.

You can't rely on the gifts alone though as the relationships merely effect the probabilities of whom the AI factions will attack or not attack. An alliance and a good relationship just means the AI faction with fight other people before looking at you. But if there are no other options for that faction (well if you are Catholic it is a good time to prompt the Pope into a Crusade to give your ally a new enemy)...

Even a good realtionship will not slow down a neutral faction if you have something they want. I could not ally with the French due to some combination of alliances but I was neutral with them and after a land grant of a province to far west for me to care about the relationship went up to Outstanding. Two turns later they attacked a poorly garrisoned settlement of mine in Italy, Outstanding relationship not withstanding...

[Quillan]

Is that applied every turn? I though it was just the starting relationships settings... If applied every turn they are pretty dramatic as the relationship range only goes from 1.0 to -1.0...

I was under the impression that those are modifiers to both relationship status (overall, not on a per-turn basis) and to diplomacy. In my Venice campaign, I certainly found it easier to negotiate with the Papal States than I did with the Byzantine Empire. Once I'd built the relationship to perfect and concluded an alliance, the Pope was willing to trade off Military Access squarely, while the Byzantines required a 6,000 florin lubrication to accept it. There's an inbuilt -0.4 to the relationship between Byzantium and Venice, in both directions, if I remember correctly.

[Ferret]

Playing the HRE aswell. I am well aware of the declining diplomatic standing with most (if not all...) of the kingdoms surrounding me. The trick is to pick a main ally and keep paying a regular tribute to them so your standing with them dont decrease.

From a HRE perspective the world is filled to the brim with dirty backstabbing kings on all fronts. They hate your guts and all you can do is brace yourself and retaliate. Ive been backstabbed by just about every half-witted, inbred, rabblerousing king out there hehehehe.... And I love it.

Currently allied with the Byzantine Empire and have been so for around 40 rounds. My borders are closing in on theirs fast so my guess is they will feel uncomfortable in about 5-6 turns.

Thats what I tried; made as many allies as possible asap and paid France a few thousand florins every 5 turns or so. But still every single allies (out of 10!) betrayed me within 40 turns except the Byzantines who are my only allie left. Even the pope cancelled our alliance for some odd reason.

[Kraxis]

My terminated HRE campaign also saw me with only enemies and the Byz and my allies. Are the Byzantines meant to be friendly with the HRE? Seems half logical as the HRE is the heir of Charlemagne's empire, and he was pretty friendly with Constantinople.

But handled the Pope differently, I just assassinated the Cardinals (then the Pope) and got my man on the job. In the end there were only a Polish and Hungarian cardinal, and then 8-9 german cardinals.

[Wingman]

During my game as Venice I captured Jerusalem on a crusade and decided to give it to the pope to improve my relations with him. A couple of turns later I look at the region and see that Jerusalem is now the capital of the Papacy. I suppose it's appropriate to move the Papacy to the holy city, but is it coded to be that way or is it just an accident?