An old idea reborn again for MP balancing

[pevergreen]

Or not Switching between at all? If the Balanced Factions were just extra factions, added into Vanilla M2TW, people wouldnt have to switch at all. In fact, since the factions would only be using already made units (yes?) the mod would not (i presume) take much space (less than a mb) Adding that onto an Official patch would be easy. And in game lobby, games could have.. lets say: PEOPLEZ NEEDEDZ! Usin Balamod factions!
as a name. Or something along those lines.

[Vinsitor]

Part of the difficulty in getting players to use an era with a different gameplay than the vanilla game is that they have invested a lot of time into mastering the vanilla game. Players have to tire of the vanilla game before most will search out something different.

I don't totally agree, you're right in the first sentence.

But in my point of view the conclusion it's the contrary. I mean it's more important to have this mod earlier than to have it later, when people (clans more than other players) are "addicetd" to vanilla stats and refuse to learn again the new ones.

A mod that solves the hugest bugs (i.e cav charge) and the biggest imbalances (speed, fatigue, cost, spears bonus) could be more welcome in the beginning IMO, and could give to the clans the time to learn to play well with it for tournaments or fun.

It's a point of view, vanilla would still offer variety of units and factions, but that could be added later in the mod too, I think.

For semplicity, the first mod version could have some main known units of vanilla's, with costs, stats, different terrains/armour's speed/fatigue slightly tweaked and we can see how it works and how clans use it IMO

Sorry for my english and cherrs!

[Vinsitor]

how about we call it "Balanced Era"

I think "CA lamer era" would be better

I'm joking, I like "MP Custom" Era more

[Puzz3D]

But in my point of view the conclusion it's the contrary. I mean it's more important to have this mod earlier than to have it later, when people (clans more than other players) are "addicetd" to vanilla stats and refuse to learn again the new ones.

I agree and was going to say the same thing, but realistically you aren't going to have the balanced era available early enough. First you have to wait until CA makes the new era, and then you have make the balanced stats. Then you have to promote it to attract players. This all takes time, and the gameplay offered has to be significantly better than the vanilla game.

A mod that solves the hugest bugs (i.e cav charge) and the biggest imbalances (speed, fatigue, cost, spears bonus) could be more welcome in the beginning IMO, and could give to the clans the time to learn to play well with it for tournaments or fun.

You're going to have to have a period of beta development. For Samurai Wars that took 3 months and 10 versions before we got something good enough to release. Since then we've only had to make 1 additional version, so the gameplay has remained consistent. If you release too early and have to make major changes, that's going to hurt the acceptance of it among the players.

The idea sounds good, but I'll say again that you don't have a robust combat simulation in M2TW. Also, some important features were lost with the move to the 3D engine. From what I know, the new engine doesn't have more features than the old engine. In the old engine, the range of a shooter was calculated on an individual man basis as was the space around each man for melee purposes to determine if he had enough space to fight at full efficiency. Accuracy of shooters was reduced when the unit was in deep formation or if a friendly unit was standing in front of the shooter. This accuracy penalty from having partially obstructed view was removed if the ranged unit was on a downward slope which enables the men to see over men who are in front of them. This accuracy effect is separate from LOS calculations which determine if a man can shoot at all. Weather also affected the accuracy of bow weapons, and the misfire rate of gunpowder weapons. You have 25% misfires in light rain, 50% misfires in moderate rain and 75% misfires in heavy rain. Armor modifies the fatigue rate differently under different weather conditions. If someone says "I can't go back to 2D sprites", I wonder if thay are putting gameplay first. On top of that, M2TW is still using 2D sprites (inferior to the sprites in the older games) except when zoomed in, but who can play MP zoomed in? It's better to play with as wide a view as possible providing that unit recognition isn't a problem.

[cromwell]

IF we could make this a highly visable project it would help. I was thinking of a WIKI type website, where we could all see whats going on, but only voted on members could make changes to stuff.

Have people submit their names to work the unit stats, and have another group volunteer to test units after changes have been made. The unit testors could submit their results to the web site, and the community could vote on the results, or decide they want more testing. We could come up with a set of simulations the unit testors must run, plus any others they can think of, this way all unit changes have gone through the same simulation. The stat modifier group can make the changes as results come in, or complete changes if needed.

This open type enviropnment ensures no ones playing style will dominate the stat changes or gameplay. We would also have a record of all the changes we tried, and testing results, so if a expansion comes out or any mods come out, we can adjust accordingly, or a mod maker can use the info.

Good Luck!

Cromwell

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Stig: Who says I went through TheShogun? He isn't very fond of me since I left the .com mod/admin position. Guess he questions my "loyalty". hehe :)

lol,he nevers responds to my PM's ethier lol




"Why does this need CAs involvement - why cant it be modded like Puzz et al did with Samurai wars. If enough people want balance and are happy with the units/stats then - they will download the mod and play it. Elmo, you said the community is reluctant to do this - and I ask why? and what does that in itself infer?"

I think it could be modded and downloaded.
But Just like Puzz Said, SamWars took 3 months and several versions before they got a good release. So would you really like to put that amount of time in it? if it will be like the Orginal MTW playing style, sure. If not, then it is questionable then..

[pevergreen]

I'm willing to put that much time into it

IF we could make this a highly visable project it would help. I was thinking of a WIKI type website, where we could all see whats going on, but only voted on members could make changes to stuff.

That would be a good idea, but as far as i see, Elmo is leading this at this point in time. Your suggestions about how it would work have convinced me a wiki would be a good idea.

I'm joking, I like "MP Custom" Era more

Why make it an era, That is my main point. There are 31 faction slots, yes? So if we make 2 factions, identical (as in Elmo's first post/posts) and slot them in, we dont need an extra era at all. The factions would not be playable in the campaign, but if we just have them as extra factions, we could have balanced early, balanced high and balanced late factions. So no new era, just two new factions, with unit stats and roster balanced for each era.

Just my

[Monarch]

I am not sure why you cannot get players to download a mod, but it has never happened that a large enough group has downloaded a mod, to make playing it over MP feasible.

Its kinda late so I don't have time to read any further into this thread, so apologies if this has already been pointed out.

A few months ago one mod got extremely popular and made Barbarian Invasion dead. Even the traditional BI/Rome tournaments such as Golden Sword and Total War Premier League recognised the mod was so big and hosted successful tournaments on the mod. Yes, I'm talking about Napoleonic Total War 2.

So there is hope.

I will add a but though, and its kinda a big but (haha ). NTW2, imo, got so popular because people were getting bored of rome and especially bi. It was a month or two before m2 came out. So people jumped at the chance for a change, ntw clans moved onto ntw2 and the lordz did a great job of ensuring this was widely known as an mp mod.

So, I was one of the people who left the mod when m2 came out, but last week I got the latest version and went online. There were only like 4 people online, all in games, medieval2 took all the players back it seems. So ye, death of rome helped ntw2 alot, which may explain why it got so popular, but nonetheless it was a very popular online mod

[pevergreen]

Yes, and with everyone playing M2TW, if this is at least recognised by CA, the widespread knowledge of it would really help. But as for the decision making, i think it would be best to wait for Elmo/whoever Elmo hands it over to. and Elmo is waiting for CA to respond. So i dont think this will ever get started

[Darkarbiter]

The problem is it wont be game compatible.

[pevergreen]

Won't be game compatible? How?

Adding two factions..compatible
Adding exisiting units to those factions..compatible
Rebalancing those renamed units..compatible

I see no problems

[CBR]

If you change the unit stat file it will not be compatible with the default version. Either you load up the game with the vanilla stats or the mod stats.


CBR

[cromwell]

This may be a obvious question, but when you change periods in MTW2 for MP. If you pick a unit that is represented in a couple or all the time periods, the stats are the same? A unit keeps his same stats, even though it's a hundred years later .....

It's too bad if thats true, other wise we could have solved the issue, of a MP stat rebalance without a huge mod or file changes.

Are their not modifiers in the stat file for early/late/high periods that we could use to adjust stats with?

Later,

Cromwell

Merry X-mass

[pevergreen]

If you change the unit stat file it will not be compatible with the default version. Either you load up the game with the vanilla stats or the mod stats.


CBR

So adding two Factions and using exisiting units for those new factions that have different names requires a different load up?
Yeah I thought having two new factions with "new" units was easily put in to the vanilla game.

[CBR]

Yes you would have to edit the unit stat file so the game knows which units belong to the new factions. Only VI allowed players to put in an extra era and a whole new unit file just for that new era.

you pick a unit that is represented in a couple or all the time periods, the stats are the same? A unit keeps his same stats, even though it's a hundred years later

Yes it stays the same and it was the same for MTW/VI. But even you could change some values for units in each era, you still cant play with people who dont use same file. The game checks the unit file for any changes and if they are different it will not be compatible.

Early RTW didnt check the unit file at all and that meant people could enable those monster elephants or change unit costs. So it has to be checked to prevent cheating.


CBR

[pevergreen]

So even if its just new factions, its not compatible with others who dont have it?

If so, an even better reason for CA to get involved.

[ElmarkOFear]

This is why I said we first need the committment of CA in helping set this up. Without them adding a new era and allowing us to set up unique units for it, our efforts will be doomed from the start.

[pevergreen]

So no word from CA? Those slackers they dont deserve christmas!

[ElmarkOFear]

You have to know CA. If they didn't think of it, then the idea isn't worthy of any attention. I don't know if it is an ego thing or if it is they just don't want to be bothered working on someone else's idea. :)

Though having read about the industry and seen it in action from its infancy, it is probably a combination of both of the above.

Funny, how PC and Video gaming, has created so much egotistical narcissism among its rank and file. ..........."Even among its fan base as well"; says a little voice in the back of Elmo's head as he looks into the mirror.

Though some have a better sense of humor about themselves.

[pevergreen]

True, as I have stated before CA it's a win/win.

[beg]SEE THAT PLEASEE[/beg]