Merchants: You CAN use many on one resource.

**chunkynut** · 12-20-2006, 13:53

I don't think this is an expliot as I've never seen the AI factions make a fort let alone a fort in a economically strategic location!!

I think this gives the game a new angle, forts should be used a lot more and now they have worth for the expense. My forts (when I bother to make one) have been attacked, when in a militarilly strategic location. You would have to plan your campaigns around going through certain bottlenecks or take out forts causing them.

**Skott** · 12-20-2006, 17:36

I'm not going to debate the morality of forts and merchants. Those that think its an exploit I respect that opinion. Those that dont think its an exploit I respect that opinion too. Thats all I got to say about it. To me its not worth arguing.

Now I been playing around a little more with forts and merchants in my French homelands and after leaving the merchants in the forts I have noticed two trends. They dont seem to get as much money as those not entrenched in forts. I need to test this more because it could just be a fluke or how I'm doing it.

The other trend is that while in forts no enemy merchants came around. Soon as bring my merchants out of forts all the surrounding factions send their merchants towards my merchants. It kinda looks like the game AI can see my merchants and makes a beeline for them. I'm going to test this more by moving my merchants in and out of forts and see if the AI merchants respond to it or not.

**Shahed** · 12-20-2006, 17:42

The theory that merchants in forts make less money is false, I believe.

You can verify that easily by:

1. Put merchant in fort.
2. Hit end turn.
3. Check the income from THAT merchant by right clicking him.
4. Make note of that income.
5. Remove merchant from fort. (hence destroying the fort)
6. Hit End Turn.
7. Move merchant back on resource.
8. Hit End Turn.
9. Check the income from THAT merchant by right clicking him.
10. Make note of that income.
11. Compare the income figures.

I've tested this on the Western bank of the Bosporus, outside Constantinople. Here you find 2 instances of Silk at equal resource value. A merchant in fort (of equal finance skill) made the same as a merchant outside the fort.

The theory that merchants in forts disperse AI merchants may be true in some cases.

However in Constantinople I have seen hordes of AI merchants, no matter, if my merchants were in forts or not. They've even horde-ed Constantinople when all my merchants were in Timbuktu (literally). So it may apply in some cases but did'nt seem to apply in my case.

**katank** · 12-20-2006, 23:11

I forsee forts being used as forward strike bases for total agent warfare. I personally think that it would be cool to use spies to id potential targets and then a merchant/assasin combo to make "an offer that he cannot refuse" to AI merchants, then dash back into the fort on the same turn for protection.

**Shahed** · 12-20-2006, 23:24

There you go, now that's creative.

**General Zhukov** · 12-22-2006, 02:37

It's a very creative idea. I also think it's one of those cases where player ingenuity runs ahead of dev foresight. It seems like an important part of the trade system is the idea that merchants have to place themselves in some kind of jeopardy, to ah, venture their capital so to speak in the course of their business. That idea is bolstered by the fact that they "make enemies" and become more prone to assassination.

Relatedly, is it possible to group a merchant with an army, station them both on a resource and gain trade income? If so, it might have a similar "protection" effect for the merchant(s), though presumably an army would irk rival factions more so than a fort. (are they irked by forts?)

**Musashi** · 12-22-2006, 02:46

I dunno... I never put forts in enemy territory. To be honest I never send my merchants to other faction's territories except for Timbuktu, and even then I try to acquire Timbuktu for myself. I prefer to keep them in my own territory where I can shield them.

But yes, a merchant can join a military stack and still make money under their protection... And of course you can have more than one merchant attached to the stack.

I've actually found that there may not be any limit to the number of agents attached to a stack, considering that I can put more than 20 spies in an enemy city.

**Divinus Arma** · 12-28-2006, 04:07

This is an excellent addition to the game. I would just love to see the AI be able to do the same thing. There is really only one other use for a fort in my opinion: plugging natural barrier bottlenecks to delay invasion forces.

If the AI could create these "trading posts" AND the vassal feature worked a bit better...

**brokguitar** · 12-28-2006, 12:06

Hi guys,
I think its a great find IMO. Merchants were a unit i thought was usless. Trying to keep track of them + taking up recruitment q's+ micromanagement gets a little tedious. The fort is a great idea that gives me less micromanaging on agents and a use for them.
I have seen a exploit the AI uses in a very similar situation.
EXAMPLE:
Next to Jerusalem is a small lake. The AI will recruit a mercanary boat with a general and place imams on the ship. Of course there is no way for a player to take out the ship unless player recruits ship on the lake to destroy it. Very smart move on the AI part but it was most likely not intended by the Devs.
Great find!!!!

**Aedile Rich** · 12-28-2006, 18:26

Originally Posted by Sinan

The theory that merchants in forts make less money is false, I believe.

You can verify that easily by:

1. Put merchant in fort.
2. Hit end turn.
3. Check the income from THAT merchant by right clicking him.
4. Make note of that income.
5. Remove merchant from fort. (hence destroying the fort)
6. Hit End Turn.
7. Move merchant back on resource.
8. Hit End Turn.
9. Check the income from THAT merchant by right clicking him.
10. Make note of that income.
11. Compare the income figures.

I've tested this on the Western bank of the Bosporus, outside Constantinople. Here you find 2 instances of Silk at equal resource value. A merchant in fort (of equal finance skill) made the same as a merchant outside the fort.

The theory that merchants in forts disperse AI merchants may be true in some cases.

However in Constantinople I have seen hordes of AI merchants, no matter, if my merchants were in forts or not. They've even horde-ed Constantinople when all my merchants were in Timbuktu (literally). So it may apply in some cases but did'nt seem to apply in my case.

I don't think the likelihood is that the fort will cause a single merchant to earn less from the resource but perhaps that multiple merchants might have the income split between them.

This, imho would make it much less of an exploit, especially if it worked it out as a percentage of their potential - ie. Two merchants on one resource; one that could gain 100 and one that could gain 50 would gain 75 between them off the shared resource.

Sound fair?