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Thread: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

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  1. #1

    Default Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    Well, since about turn 5 I have been attacked from just about every faction you can imagine. I've done everything I can to keep the Pope in my favor and often other factions are ex-communicated for attacking me (I also produced one Pope, but he only lasted two turns). So what exactly is the reason for this *aggression* against Venice? I sometimes plea for ceasefires and there are always a failure. And Sicily, in particular, has been outrageous when asking for a ceasefire but only if I am to give up two of my regions!

    I was kinda hoping to play Venice to get a good feel for the trading and economical aspect of the game (which is not entirely solid) so that I could last longer in a more military campaign with a true military power...but so far I have found just the opposite.

    Any thoughts? Anyone else playing a Venetian campaign? I am currently at turn 97.

    Thanks and happy MTW2'n.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    I haven't played as Venice yet, but my guess is that part of the reason may be because of the strategic location of the city of Venice itself. Especially early in the game, it's the only good route from East to West and blocks access to the Italian peninsula for most factions.

    And also you're right in the thick of things, with many neighbors at your borders compared to other factions. You should expect more wars than if you were on the edges of the campaign map, i.e. Egpyt, Moors, England, etc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    I've played (or at least started) a lot of Venice games and I can tell you this:

    If you take Durazzo, you'll get into it with Byz real early
    If you take Zagreb, you'll get into it with Hungary real early
    If you play as Venice, you'll get into it with Milan real early

    Before the patch, ditto on Sicily. Since the patch they usually seem more interested in building an empire in Africa.

    And also, if you wipe out Milan, you'll probably have France breathing down your neck for the rest of the game as well. If you want to turtle, the best thing to do is don't take Zagreb or Durazzo. And wait till Milan has taken Dijon and, ideally, Marseilles, before you take Milan and Genoa from them. That'll leave them weak enough to pose no real threat, you in possession of the very-defensible north Italian plain and with no shared border with France (unless they have Bern)

    Then all you have to worry about is the eternal enmity of the Germans.

    And incidentally, HRE will sell you Bologna on turn 1 for a pretty decent price if you combine it with an Alliance, Trade Rights and Map Information. I've gotten it for as little as 2350/turn for 2 turns or 500/turn for 12 turns. Its a good spot for a castle. Sicily will hate you if you do this - factions seem to resent castles on their borders a lot more than they do cities.

  4. #4
    The Ferryman Member trickydicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    Well I've only played the one Venice campaign so far. I tended to ignore expansion off the Italian peninsular to start with. I took Florence straight away, Allied with everyone, and I mean everyone.

    After that I built up my trade a little in Venice and Florence, I then invaded the two med Islands. At this point Milan was starting to get a bit itchy about Florence, so I reduced the Garrison a little and they attacked, repeatedly....then got Excommed

    At that point I kicked them out of Italy proper. I have to say things start to look up at that point.

    A couple of things to bear in mind.

    1) If you have a strong Military, usually the AI will leave you alone. (I had a full stack on the bridge outside Venice, also one in Florence, and one in Riga.

    2) Use your princess(s) to secure alliances, and gift a little money to the AI now and again to keep up relations.

    3) If necessary, keep a small (but tough) army in the mountain pass between Bologna and Florence.
    For some reason Milan attacked me here, repeatedly - I then used the high ground to tell them who was boss, repeatedly.

    4) Wait for the AI to attack you, when they get Excommed, strike hard and fast.

    5) If at all possible, don't get into a multi front war, do whatever is necessary to keep the peace with other surrounding factions.

    6) Don't give up.

    Once you unite the Italian Peninsular things are looking good, you can precede any which way you want, at that point.
    God Paradox

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    Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot, or he can but does not want to, or he cannot and does not want to, or lastly he can and wants to.

    If he wants to remove evil, and cannot, he is not omnipotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is not benevolent. If he neither can nor wants to, he is neither omnipotent nor benevolent. But if God can abolish evil and wants to, how does evil exist?

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  5. #5
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    I am currently in 1207 AD in a campaign as Venice, where I've played as the totally chivalrous leader. I executed no prisoner, nor did I ever ask for ransom. I sacked no cities, nor did I ever exterminate, only occupied. As initial moves, I established trade rights with the HRE, then alliance, then purchased Bologna from them for something on the order of 1000 florins per turn for 7 turns. This followed a few turns later with mutual military access, and over the course of the game I continually gifted them with map information and small monetary donations to maintain the relationship status. I formed a similar alliance with the Pope, and another with the Byzantine Empire. Through the entire 127 turns (1 year per turn) I have not been attacked by either the HRE or the Byzantines, and I did take Zagreb and Durazzo. I was jumped by Milan as usual, and finally had to push them out of Italy for security. I was also jumped by the Sicilians and took them out of the game for total control of the peninsula apart from the Papal States.

    I have been at war with the Turks (crusade against Antioch, which was rebel when it was called but was taken by the Turks before my army arrived) twice, the second time dragged in by helping my Byzantine allies in battle, and with Hungary twice, once in the same circumstance of helping the Byzantines and once when they attacked me. Spain attacked me once we shared a border, but France asked me for an alliance and hasn't broken it despite me deliberately ignoring them.

    I suspect in large part it is a matter of reputation, otherwise known as global relationship modifiers to all factions. Keeping that up makes it easier to establish peace arrangements. Other parts include maintenance of a good relationships, which seems to require regular trades or gifts on your part, and possible triggers for war. I've come to suspect that each faction has one or more "target" provinces that causes them to attack the owner.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    I imagine, Quillan, that if you kept Byz buttered up that way, things could stay cool with them for a long time. A lot of their behavior depends on how well or poorly their near-inevitable war with the Turks goes. But I don't think I could bring myself to do that - I've played enough Venice games that I now harbor a huge pool of residual loathing for the faction, carried over from one game to the next ^_^

    Its the only faction I know of that will go out of its way to ask for an alliance the turn before it plans to attack. Because why initiate a just-plain-ol war when one can do a Betrayal! seems to be their thinking. Besides, I'd just as soon they invest in desolate Durazzo during the first couple generations and then I'll take it from them later on when it's plumped up a bit!

    In my newest Venice game, I threw everything that wasn't nailed down into boats and invaded Egypt on turn 12 or so, then abandoned the European provinces entirely. Just for a change of scenery. I just like the faction. Fond of the units and its a very handsome flag.

  7. #7
    Member Member GrandInquisitor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venetian Campaign - War Against Byzantium, Sicily, Milan, and Hungary

    Reputation really doesn't matter. I've played several games (none all the way to the end, but extended games) and in all my experiences I've learned this:

    A certain number of AI factions WILL be out for your blood, no matter what you do. And just when you think you can breath easy because you've taken one out, another (often a 'secure' ally) will be waiting in advance. No matter how generous or chivalrous I've been, I never have any more luck getting a ceasefire. The only way to get a ceasefire is if the AI will offer one, but that tanks within three turns (often the same one) when they've got a new army to pester you with.

    I've found it unrewarding to be diplomatic in M2, except to the Pope.

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