Enemy Faction mysteriously " Doesn't Die "

**avery123** · 08-23-2007, 21:40

Hi Folks,

I've been playing as the HRE on short campaign... you know... Wipe out Denmark and Milan.

I wiped out Denmark very early on in the game, but it took a lot longer to take all the Milanese settlements... but there is one thing wrong;
The Milanese still exist !!!

I know this because after a lot of searching, a Milanese diplomat finally turned up, so I offered him a load of my settlements so he'd give me his precious map information in return.

Anyway, he agreed - and - Low and behold, only the settlements that I gave him showed up on the map !

This means that in my game, Milan exists as a faction, without any land !!!
A kind of Ghost faction... Can a faction do this ?

The only thing that I can think of that might allow them to remain in the game, is the fact that I don't own the city of Milan itself. It is owned by the French.
Or maybe I have to destroy all their armies?

I welcome any feedback.

**ReiseReise** · 08-23-2007, 22:10

I'd say you missed something. Maybe they had Ajjacio or something else hard to see on the map. Did you get a "faction eliminated" message when you took their "last" city? Also, look at the graphs in the faction info screen and see how many territories they had, i'll bet its been at 1 all along. If you don't mind "cheating" press ~ to open the console and type toggle_fow so you can see the whole map and you can find their mystery city.

**Ramses II CP** · 08-23-2007, 23:08

If they successfully crusaded for Jerusalem it's nearly impossible to pick out on the little map. Check all the islands as well, natch.

**imnothere** · 08-24-2007, 03:55

agree. i had a similar experience with Venetians where I booted them out of the continent so bad that I left a permanent boot imprint on the buttocks of the diplomats.

i was still searching a way to remove their annoying "Give us our country back or else we will diplomatically harass you" 20 turns later.

eventually found the cretins on the crete, which i

.

so yeah, unless you are fighting the pope, it is not a bug.

**khaos83_2000** · 08-24-2007, 12:24

most probably they have a city somewhere far far away.
As for the diplomats, i always wish for a "Kill this diplomat" button in the diplomacy scroll. AI always like to threaten you to return their cities to them and ask for reparations when you outnumber, outquality them 10:1. And it's a pain in the ass.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-24-2007, 12:57

Yeah a "kill enemy diplomat" feature would be nice. It should damage your factions reputation though, and give your leader dread traits etc.

BTW, when you see enemy diplomats at the end turn doing their little diplomacy animation (when they bow) to one of your cities, but no diplomacy scroll shows up, does that mean they were attempting a bribe? Also, AI diplomats do this to AI cities under siege, I thought that was impossible.

**Empirate** · 08-24-2007, 13:58

This bowing thing also occurs a lot with Princesses, even if they don't enter negotiations, and there is no family member in the settlement in question. It annoys the hell out of me. I've done the Nine Armies Squash to more Princesses and Diplomats than anything else because of this.

**sapi** · 08-24-2007, 14:25

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Yeah a "kill enemy diplomat" feature would be nice. It should damage your factions reputation though, and give your leader dread traits etc.

BTW, when you see enemy diplomats at the end turn doing their little diplomacy animation (when they bow) to one of your cities, but no diplomacy scroll shows up, does that mean they were attempting a bribe? Also, AI diplomats do this to AI cities under siege, I thought that was impossible.

Yes, it's a bribe; and the issue with the sieges is a result of multi-turn orders on behalf of the AI (they did not 'know' of the siege when the order was given)

**gardibolt** · 08-24-2007, 17:18

Originally Posted by avery123

Hi Folks,

I've been playing as the HRE on short campaign... you know... Wipe out Denmark and Milan.

I wiped out Denmark very early on in the game, but it took a lot longer to take all the Milanese settlements... but there is one thing wrong;
The Milanese still exist !!!

I know this because after a lot of searching, a Milanese diplomat finally turned up, so I offered him a load of my settlements so he'd give me his precious map information in return.

Anyway, he agreed - and - Low and behold, only the settlements that I gave him showed up on the map !

This means that in my game, Milan exists as a faction, without any land !!!
A kind of Ghost faction... Can a faction do this ?

The only thing that I can think of that might allow them to remain in the game, is the fact that I don't own the city of Milan itself. It is owned by the French.
Or maybe I have to destroy all their armies?

I welcome any feedback.

Did you check on the faction screen to see how many provinces they owned? If it's zero, then something's wrong. But they may well have had one tucked away on an island somewhere, and that should show on the graph as more than zero. Do you have a save from before you gave them settlements but after you thought you wiped them out to check?

**The Stranger** · 08-24-2007, 19:15

you couldve just done ` toggle_fow ...

**avery123** · 08-24-2007, 19:40

Hi. Thanks for your response.
To answer your questions:

No, I never had a faction eliminated screen.
I will look at the faction info charts more closely.

As for their whereabouts, I can only assume that they hold a tiny area, that can hardly be seen on the mini map. I assume they can't be in the new world, as it's still the very early 1200s.

I know that they're allied with Byzantium and at war with Sicily, I guess I'll have to build a good navy down in the med.

Cheers