v 1.1 AI fleets - out of control?

**Slaists** · 12-20-2006, 16:47

I find pleasing the post-patch added AI naval agressiveness however, it frequently borders with extreme silliness... For example, playing as English I get frequently attacked by my former allies' Spanish and Portuguese navies (we have no common borders except the sea). The attacks come in both forms: port blockades and landings, which I consistenly repel. This alone would be alright (there are even historical precedents for Spanish agression northwards) with me.

But then... if I approach same Spanish or Portuguese with a diplomat in the same turn they attack, they always seem to be very willing to negotiate for peace and even pay for it (dearly)... It seemed as if their fleets were somehow "out of control" and carrying their attacks against the will of their royal superiors... So, is it just that the AI has been set to randomly invade by sea no matter what? Needless to say, it does not help the AI factions to develop to their full potential.

**TheSeated** · 12-20-2006, 17:12

This is just an extension of the AI's stupidity on land. Any AI factions near the human player are doomed to be broke and broken.

**Basileus** · 12-20-2006, 18:06

A faction rarely agrees to peace if youre at war and share borders, now the thing with the new invasions is that even if the AI does a naval invasion its going to want peace because you dont share a land border so it does not want a war. So in my mind the patch is screwed up and it doesnt matter how much some people say naval invasions happend and its a good feature, needs fixing!

**Ulstan** · 12-20-2006, 19:13

But then... if I approach same Spanish or Portuguese with a diplomat in the same turn they attack, they always seem to be very willing to negotiate for peace and even pay for it (dearly)...

I tend to not ask for money from the AI in my diplomatic efforts because they always seem to willing to give it to me, thus making my job too easy.

Fortunately, "AI too willing to give you money" is something comletely under your control, in terms of whether it happens or not.

**Slaists** · 12-20-2006, 19:35

My point was not so much about AI's willingness to pay but that the game engine kind of suggests the AI actually has not had an intention to attack... For the ones that attack you with vigor and purpose, ceasefire usually is not an option (in the game).

**Alden** · 12-20-2006, 19:46

It does seem like the fleet commanders arn't reading their policy memos. I've had games in which a neighbor routinely blockaded my ports while we had Amiable relations. It even once blockaded me and had a Diplomat ask for a ceasefire in the same turn.

In a Poland game, I refrained from building ports in Stettin and Thorn and it was pretty funny to see Danish, Russian and German ships linger right in front of where the ports would be, their hearts swollen with longing for something to blockade. But they were thwarted by my clever policy and peace reigned in the Northlands for many a year.

**dismal** · 12-20-2006, 19:48

The new AI needs to listen to that song: "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough".

The AI seems to love initiating frivolous wars (over a micro-invasion, or just a one turn blockade) and then be willing to give things away for a ceasefire two turns later.

**CaptainSolo** · 12-20-2006, 22:04

This issue is bugging the life out of me and seems i'll considered and untested.As usual i can't decide what faction to play as and as a consequence have started three different campaigns in the last two days (Milan,Moors,Portugal).On each occaision Sicily has landed a stack next to one of my settlements only to agree peace immediately.It feels like their following me around.
The main problem as i see it is that there seems to be no sense in most of the AI targets.I have started two games in the last couple of days as Milan and both times Sicily did exactly the same thing.This looks more like some program routine rather than considered AI.

I'm thinking of reinstalling V1.0,the game was more enjoyable then.I don't mind a challenge and i'm all for naval invasions,just not the way it's done here.
This will be the first time i have criticised MTW2 but it's a feature that is badly implemented and i'll bet it's first one on the list come the next patch.

**Alden** · 12-20-2006, 22:15

I was playing a Portugal game last weekend and finally got around to sending an army after Valencia. Lo and behold, to my astonishment, I found it already under seige by the Sicilians. And they weren't on their first try because the castle was already damaged. No way would I tolerate a Norman presence in my sphere so I attacked them and drove them back to their ships, then sank the ships. They never returned.

Even if they had remained hostile, it wouldn't have been that big a problem in Iberia itself, since things are close enough to each other that settlements can provide mutual support. But in North Africa it would be a nightmare - each city would have to have a garrison sufficient to defend itself against a determined attacker. That's not very cost effective and a cost effective empire is the only sort of empire I can abide. Your better off not owning provinces that cost more to garrison than they generate in revenue.

The obvious solution would be to give them a taste of their own medicine and invade them right back.

**todorp** · 12-21-2006, 21:39

In my current Protugal V/h/Vh campaign the two provinces Sicily has 4 half stack fleets. I have 21 provinces and cant afford 3 ships. The AI is cheating on a gross scale :)

**CaptainSolo** · 12-21-2006, 21:54

I dont mind the Ai getting a bit of a leg up Todorp if it improves the game.What i cant understand is why the AI would go to the trouble of sending a fleet half way across the mediteranean to start a war when easier pickings are available nearer to home,ie rebel settlements.The Spanish having a pop at Caernavon also springs to mind.
As i said before the Sicillians are following me

Every game i have started they have appeared with Stacks of various sizes and put a settlement under siege,only to accept peace the next turn.I'm really hoping to start an Egyptian campaign soon when i have some time off and i fully expect them to turn up at Alexandria too and mull about for 10 years doing nothing.

**Quillan** · 12-21-2006, 21:55

The 2-province Sicilian faction only needs 1 army. You, with 21 provinces, need at least 3 and possibly as many as 6 depending on where those 21 provinces are. That's a tremendous difference in maintenance costs. They may well be cheating (in RTW on higher campaign difficulties the AI got massive bonus cash every turn to enable them to field greater numbers of troops) but that's also part of it.

**Zenicetus** · 12-21-2006, 22:10

Originally Posted by todorp

In my current Protugal V/h/Vh campaign the two provinces Sicily has 4 half stack fleets. I have 21 provinces and cant afford 3 ships. The AI is cheating on a gross scale :)

Or maybe certain factions are just tilted more towards naval production in the campaign AI. Fairly early in my current campaign, I noticed Venice was wandering around the Med with big (half stack) fleets, although the ships were crappy quality. Venice should be aggressive that way, and probably Sicily too... definitely Spain, Portugal, Denmark, England.

I noticed England was also pumping out a lot of ships, even though they're not actually doing that well as a faction, and I don't see that those ships are helping them any. They're broke and haven't expanded past their starting provinces. So this may be a case where, if the AI is programmed to pump out ships because England was a strong naval power historically, it's counter-productive to their current position in the game. Well, at least it's good pirate fodder.... helps keep the pirates off my back.