So the weakest unit is...

[Ar7]

The dismounted knight who had trained his entire life to use a sword with excellent finesse and is protected by the best armor and a perfectly balanced shield?

Why such a statement...well...

- Cavalry kill them

- Axemen/Polearms/Billmen kill them

- Most of the ranged units kill them, since so many have armor piercing

- Even peasants kill them!!!!

This is insane...comments, critique, flame anybody?

[pevergreen]

Get a flamebot for flaming.
Anyway, they kill spears. Archers in CC, cav after charge. and peasants...well just mod them out of the game entirely.

I use as much knights as I can (all dismounted) what can i say? I love armour!

[Ar7]

I wasn't flaming, I was just speaking from my experience.

[zulukiller]

Well IMO from testing the worst unit in game that isnt even fit to be used atm is the dismounted english knights. There extremely expensive and lose to so many units they at worst should have a really close battle with.

Dek v D.Gothic knights (Dek lose)
Dek v Zwei hander (Dek lose)
Dek v Feudal knights HRE (Dek lose)
Dek v Imperial knights HRE (Dek lose)
Dek v Halbred militia HRE (Dek lose)
Dek v Armoured sergants HRE (evenly matched)
Dek v D.Chivalric knights Frence (Dek lose)
Dek v D.Feudal knights France (Dek lose)

[Skott]

I dont know if they are the worse but you'd think dismounted knights would be stronger than they play in the game. But then again taking a horse away from the knight just makes him a big lumbering tank subject to infantry attacks. (tanks without infantry support are asking for trouble) So maybe they are that way for a reason?

[Musashi]

DEKs are bugged, so of course they lose to everything.

The actual weakest unit though is the Town Militia. Will lose to every non-bugged unit in the game.

[zulukiller]

@Musashi True.

BWT thats pretty mad itself town militia being so weak you would think peasants would be the weakest unit in game.

[pevergreen]

Put peasants are uber

@Ar7 T'was a joke, sorry if offence was taken.

This is insane...comments, critique, flame anybody?

you put flame there, I repsonded.

Well with zxiang's fix for 2h, billmen snap everything. Chilvaric charge perfect into DEK, 30 DEK losses, DEK continue to lose up to 5 men and killing every CK. Will run some tests.

[pevergreen]

Testing posted in new thread.

[John Johnston]

But then again taking a horse away from the knight just makes him a big lumbering tank subject to infantry attacks. So maybe they are that way for a reason?

You can do pretty much anything while wearing plate that you can do without. It's hot, and sweaty, and you get tired quicker, and you can't run as fast, and it's hard to see if you're wearing a full helm (which is far and away the biggest problem with heavy armour imo); but on t'other hand you're practically immune to cutting weapons. Dismounted knights in plate armour and carrying nasty weapons should by rights slaughter most infantry opponents.

Mind, I had reasonable success using DEKs a while back, so they're not totally rubbish.

[John Johnston]

But then again taking a horse away from the knight just makes him a big lumbering tank subject to infantry attacks. So maybe they are that way for a reason?

You can do pretty much anything while wearing plate that you can do without. It's hot, and sweaty, and you get tired quicker, and you can't run as fast, and it's hard to see if you're wearing a full helm (which is far and away the biggest problem with heavy armour imo); but on t'other hand you're practically immune to cutting weapons. Dismounted knights in plate armour and carrying nasty weapons should by rights slaughter most infantry opponents.

Mind, I had reasonable success using DEKs a while back, so they're not totally rubbish.

[Doug-Thompson]

The weakest unit is the Egyptian peasant: Attack =1, Defense = 1, and Charge Bonus = 1. Morale is poor and they are vulnerable to missiles.

[katank]

Yep, contrary to popular opinion, plate was actually quite maneuverable. Also, the weight of plate is carried on the hips and not the shoulders like mail hauberks. In some senses, it's even better than mail at not fatiguing your shoulder/arm.

Tank/infantry analogy is also a bit iffy in that armoured foot knights can turn around a helluva lot faster than a tank. Good luck sticking satchel charges onto a foot knight

[dismal]

OP is simply not true.

An army anchored by DFK's/DCK's as the core infantry cuts through European armies like a buzzsaw. I make all of them I can. (Not so great against horse archer factions though.)

Frankly, they seem almost too easy to get for the power they bring.

[Ar7]

My experience was mostly with Dismounted English Knights, them being bugged explains a lot

[OMGLAZERS]

My experience was mostly with Dismounted English Knights, them being bugged explains a lot

How are they bugged?

I'm playing an English campaign now, and hadn't noticed! They usually formed shock troops with my Billment to hit on the sides (about into turn 80, modded w/ Shaba Wangy and the 2h zxwiang fix)

Whats a good unit to replace them with then? I can't find one :\

[Varyar]

If there is one unit I have found utterly useless it's the turkish Azabs. I can't think of a single reason to train them besides desperation. Town Militia have better stats and at least provide free-of-upkeep law enforcement in your cities...

[Roy1991]

How are they bugged?

I'm playing an English campaign now, and hadn't noticed! They usually formed shock troops with my Billment to hit on the sides (about into turn 80, modded w/ Shaba Wangy and the 2h zxwiang fix)

Whats a good unit to replace them with then? I can't find one :\

First you ask how they're bugged, and then you say you're playing using the 2handed fix? lol


The 2 handed fix is what solves the bug.

[Tuidjy]

"The 2 handed fix is what solves the bug"... and seriously overpowers both
Dismounted English Knights and Billmen. No wonder you are using them, it
only shows you have a good intuition for what works :-)

[Mega Dux Bob]

OP is simply not true.

An army anchored by DFK's/DCK's as the core infantry cuts through European armies like a buzzsaw. I make all of them I can. (Not so great against horse archer factions though.)

Frankly, they seem almost too easy to get for the power they bring.

DFK and DCK don't work that well against mounted knights. I typically pare them with spear units. The dissmounted knight roll over the infantry while spears stop any horse that attacks them.

[dismal]

DFK and DCK don't work that well against mounted knights. I typically pare them with spear units. The dissmounted knight roll over the infantry while spears stop any horse that attacks them.

In my experience, they hold up fairly well against anything. It may be costly, so you may not want them fighting mounted knights for long, but they have plenty of morale to do it and will exact a fair number of casualties.

Of course, I bring my own mounted knights along, so they don't have to fight for long without help. When the enemy commits its cav, the foot knights just need to hold long enough for me to get my cav to attack his cav's backside. Once the battle is joined, I start When your infantry line can soundly beat his infantry line, he has a big problem on his hands. He'll lose if he doesn't commit his cav, he's vulnerable if he does.

My typical attacking army will feature 2 parts foot knights/1 part mounted knights/1 part ranged (pavisse xbows are nice) and maybe a general and some siege equipment. This army is powerful enough to steamroll anything toe-to-toe and can at least hold its own against anything you are likely to see in Europe at range.