2 Hander Testing

**BigTex** · 12-22-2006, 06:02

Just whatever you do, don't zoom in on the Varangian Guard with that animation on. But still better then the "Spin" animation. Also would suggest looking over this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74127 quite alot about the animations in there.

**Jambo** · 12-22-2006, 12:22

Highland nobles or zweihander, I think they're both the same. There's only one animation which looks kind of funny and that's the one where the swordman stabs first then swings to the neck. The stab looks a big daft with an axe, but the swing to the neck looks fine so it passes. Apart from that all the others are fine.

**Ars Moriendi** · 12-23-2006, 13:00

You know what I'd like to see, balancing-wise ?
A new stat added to all units, something like "attack speed" or "attack skill" that should reflect that unit's animation speed/effectiveness. That will be really helpfull both for the player (who'll be better informed about his soldiers potential before testing them in battle) and for the AI (who'll be better guided in selecting what to train and deciding the outcome of auto-calc battles more accurately).
This new stat shouldn't, of course, have any other effect on the battlefield.

I think something like this will make the balancing easier, bypassing some of the problems with the current stats/animation/cost system (see Zatoichi's post above for an example of a cause-effect chain propagating simple changes to other areas of the game).

The big problem is - I don't think a new stat could be added even by a patch, let alone modding. Maybe the next game engine.

**JFC** · 12-23-2006, 13:09

I have to say I am amazed at the sheer amount of tweaking/downloading/modding/hunting around the forums for said downloads that I have had to do JUST to get the game to work as it was probably intended!

**Musashi** · 12-23-2006, 13:12

Originally Posted by Ars Moriendi

You know what I'd like to see, balancing-wise ?
A new stat added to all units, something like "attack speed" or "attack skill" that should reflect that unit's animation speed/effectiveness. That will be really helpfull both for the player (who'll be better informed about his soldiers potential before testing them in battle) and for the AI (who'll be better guided in selecting what to train and deciding the outcome of auto-calc battles more accurately).
This new stat shouldn't, of course, have any other effect on the battlefield.

I think something like this will make the balancing easier, bypassing some of the problems with the current stats/animation/cost system (see Zatoichi's post above for an example of a cause-effect chain propagating simple changes to other areas of the game).

The big problem is - I don't think a new stat could be added even by a patch, let alone modding. Maybe the next game engine.

It would be better if they just standardized the attack speed of all animations, so that you could look at the stats and know which unit was better at a glance.

**sapi** · 12-23-2006, 13:26

One thing i certainly agree on is that CA have got things backwards with animations.

Animations should arise as a result of kills, not the other way around. As it is the main factor in a unit's lethality is unknown to the player before battles, and having animations determine casualties has caused all sorts of problems :(

**Ars Moriendi** · 12-23-2006, 16:08

Originally Posted by Musashi

It would be better if they just standardized the attack speed of all animations[...]

You mean - all units attacks having the exact same duration ? Having the big two-hander swing its weapon as fast as the archer's knife ? Not sure if I like it, and it doesn't look like the ways of MTW will be back any time soon, by the direction the TW games are evolving.

Originally Posted by sapi

Animations should arise as a result of kills, not the other way around.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Kills aren't the result of animations. They're the result of one soldier attacking another. The animation is just the game engine's way of graphically showing it to you. It could've been just plain text, like: "Billmen hits knight for 2d4 damage. Knight attacks billmen and misses. Archer shoots at pikemen. Pikemen rolls 13 and evades...etc". The problem is that the actual duration of the animation affects the soldiers effectiveness (unlike in turn-based RPG tactical combat where the attack/defense is instantaneous, at the end of a round, although it may take some time for the results to be displayed, graphically or not) and this effect is not evident in the stats.

Originally Posted by sapi

As it is the main factor in a unit's lethality is unknown to the player before battles, and having animations determine casualties has caused all sorts of problems

Thus my desire to see that "main factor" visibly quantised in a way that makes it easily grasped by the player and simple for the AI to understand and use.
I have seen such a stat as "attack speed" in various RPGs and it seems to work fine.

Anyways, it's kinda useless to fabulate about it, it won't happen too soon.

**Musashi** · 12-23-2006, 22:41

Originally Posted by Ars Moriendi

You mean - all units attacks having the exact same duration ? Having the big two-hander swing its weapon as fast as the archer's knife ? Not sure if I like it, and it doesn't look like the ways of MTW will be back any time soon, by the direction the TW games are evolving.

It always seems like people who've never actually swung a two handed weapon think that you turn into a lumbering sloth the moment you have one in your hands. The actual truth is that the difference in time between slashing with a greatsword and slashing with a dagger is maybe a few microseconds. It's mostly a matter of how fast you can swing your arms... The weight of the weapon is nearly irrelevant unless you're trying to use something that is literally too heavy for you to lift and swing.