Please help me end this crusade!!!

[Flavius Gonzo]

I've posted a few times on this issue before and gotten some good helpful tips. But it's getting worse and I could still use advice. In my Turkish campaign, there is still a crusade on the city of Antioch, and I cannot figure out how to end it. Seriously, it's been like 40 turns since the thing was called.

Here's what I've done so far.

1) Trapped 4 crusader armies for at least 10 turns attempting to cross into Asia Minor by Constantinople. At the advise of the board, I assasinated all 4 crusader generals, and the next turn the armies they were leading dissapeared.

2) Sent spies around Italy and into the Iberian peninsula to try to find any crusader armies that might be stuck. No dice, I found none of 'em.

3) Frustrated, I toggled FOW to see what I could find on the map. Sure enough, there were 2 ships floating in the Western med with the crusader flag, one venetian, one portugeuse. I had a fleet about 3 turns away. But I can't explain what happened when I got there: I fought Venice's crusading navy, won a victory, but did not sink all of his ships. I turn FOW back off, but I can't find the remaining venice navy ANYWHERE. And additionally, the Portuguese crusading navy seems to have disappeared too!! I saved and clicked a few turns ahead, still no navies, still no end to the crusade!

Maybe I'm missing something, but does anyone have any suggestions? This is really important because I would like to call a ceasefire with Hungary and Venice, but I don't think I can until the Crusade ends.

I've been a CA defender a lot on here, but this is definitely bugly behavior. AI Crusading armies just floating around the western med for 30 turns at a time and then vanishing is weak.

[Bugout]

Just a couple of things I have noticed that might help. The crusade ends if the pope dies or it is completed, so you can find a way to help him meet his Maker or just wait it out. Also as far as getting ceasefires with the AI having a crusader army doesn't make a difference. The AI will send crusades against Egypt and declare ceasefires a turn or 2 later while the crusade marches to Jerusalem. Then when they attack the city they are at war again. So I don't think the crusade should impact your situation. Worry more about whether the AI is in a parleying mood.

[Snoil The Mighty]

Killing off the crusading generals gets rid of the crusading armies, but I don't know whether killing all the generals will end the declaration of crusade. I beleieve, and if I am wrong I hope someone corrects me, that all crusading armies have to have signed on within 10 turns of the crusade, thus making the number finite. In other the AI can't spam new crusades at you after 10 turns. I also know that killing the general of that army disbands it, or at least it's worked that way for me. As a muslim faction, you can't make any moves on the poescale so you can't get it rescinded, and actually I'm not sure Catholic factions can either in fact (I have never been in that position-perhaps someone else has and can tell us?). So as far as I can see you have the following options:Kill off the crusading armies-which means killing the generals of said armies. This should, if I am right at least remove the actual threat of the crusade, though I'm usure if it rescinds the actual call of a crusade-to wit, the crusade exists in name only at that point. Two, kill the Pontiff. This works. Three, give up the city, let a cruading army take it, then take it back-though this would work, it's obviously not what you want to do.

[Flavius Gonzo]

OK, I hadn't tried to kill the pope yet. Perhaps that's the answer!!!

About ceasefires... I've noticed that I can't offer a ceasefire to ANY Catholic faction. Not that they won't accept it, I just can't even OFFER it, it doesn't appear in my options. Is that not a result of the crusade? I also can't offer an alliance with any catholic faction either.

Strangely, the AI can approach ME and ask for a ceasefire, but I can't do the same to him next turn. I had just assumed it was the Crusade thing... is that not the case? If not what else affects whether or not I can even offer a ceasefire?

[Flavius Gonzo]

BTW... giving up the crusading city is not an option. There hasn't been a crusader army anywhere remotely near Antioch ever during the crusade. They seem to prefer floating around the western Mediteranian or hanging out in near Constaninople waiting for me to move my ships out of the way of the Boshporus river crossing.

Stupid AI.

[Snoil The Mighty]

OK, I hadn't tried to kill the pope yet. Perhaps that's the answer!!!

About ceasefires... I've noticed that I can't offer a ceasefire to ANY Catholic faction. Not that they won't accept it, I just can't even OFFER it, it doesn't appear in my options. Is that not a result of the crusade? I also can't offer an alliance with any catholic faction either.

Strangely, the AI can approach ME and ask for a ceasefire, but I can't do the same to him next turn. I had just assumed it was the Crusade thing... is that not the case? If not what else affects whether or not I can even offer a ceasefire?

That would be the result of you being in "crusaded against status" yes. Have you tried getting your ships out of the Bosphorus to see if they will do anything remotely intelligent afterwards? Or leave the city lightly defended to make it a more enticing target?

[Hamburglo]

Take your garrison out and sell it to a remaining Catholic faction that you're not at war with (if any), then capture it again next turn. Catholics owning it will end the Crusade.

If they're all at war with you, then I dunno. Killing the Pope ends the crusade too if you have an assassin nearby.

[dismal]

a) I'm pretty sure the Pope's death does not end a crusade. Been through lots of crusades and lots of Pope's dying but never saw a crusade called off becuase of one.

b) I have seen crusades expire if no one completes them in enough turns

c) Not sure why ending the crusade is so important if no one is attacking.

[katank]

Assasinating the generals leading the crusades should be enough to get the crusade stacks to disband unless that rule (like the desertions) doesn't apply to the AI either.

Assassinating pope only works if you are a Catholic since it makes you no longer excommed and hence no longer a valid crusade target.

[Snoil The Mighty]

a) I'm pretty sure the Pope's death does not end a crusade. Been through lots of crusades and lots of Pope's dying but never saw a crusade called off becuase of one.

b) I have seen crusades expire if no one completes them in enough turns

c) Not sure why ending the crusade is so important if no one is attacking.

Don't know if it's a question of the new Pontiff's traits or not, but my only muslim campaign was Egytian, and killing the pope worked to end two crusades against me. Once by assassination, once by conquest. I suppose it's possible the timing was coincidental, but it worked for me that way twice in one campaign...

[Flavius Gonzo]

Snoil -- thanks for clarifying the "Crusaded against status" thing. I had kind of figured the same but now I know for sure. Dismal, that's why I want important to end the crusade -- I need to bargain for some ceasefires, with at least SOME of the catholics, even if it costs lots. My plan at this point is to turtle for a awhile, I'd like to take some cities this campaign with gunpowder weapons, and also sail to the new world eventually before I get the 45 cities.

So, gifting the city to The Cathoics, this may be an option. However, Antioch is my best economic city, producing around 8k/turn... if I gift it will I risk losing any of it's buildings or pop? Can I gift & re-capture in the same turn without any penalties?

And I can't let the crusaders over the boshporus, I already took care of those armies with assasins. The only ones left are mysteriously floating around doing nothing in the Western Med.

Thanks everyone for the help.

[katank]

So you destroyed the land armies with assassins. Why not simply sink the shipborne ones? Then any threat shall be over. The crusade would then be in name only.

[sapi]

^^ If you read up you'll realise he's lost the ships :P

[Flavius Gonzo]

I just managed to find and sink the Sicilian crusaders. After flat out disappearing for several turns, the army re-appeared on Sicily, then boarded a ship before my assassin got to him. The ship just sat around for a turn and I was able to sink the entire fleet.

Still no end to the crusade, and I've searched everywhere with FOW off, but no dice. There was that damn Portugeuse fleet earlier, but it's just blatantly no where on the map anymore. I'm flumoxed.

BTW, I did manage to kill 2 popes (cool and different videos, too) but that did not end the crusade.

I'm kind of becoming resigned the the fact that my poor turks will be at war with all of Christendom for the rest of the campaign.

[katank]

Don't sweat it. Declare thyself the enemy of all Christendom and overrung catholic Europe. Be sure to imam spam to convert all to the one true faith.

[Snoil The Mighty]

Went back to my Egypt savegames, and indeed killing the pope didn't work, though the crusade did end one turn into the new pope's term, without me doing anything. I have no idea why though. As to the disappearing Portugese fleet which is on invisible crusade mode, about the only thing I can think of would be to go and eliminate the faction and see if any fleets loaded with crusader knights shows up anywhere. I might have to try this myself with a new campaign just because I want to find out how/why.......in fact I would like to know why the crusade in my Egypt campaign got cancelled too. I had it happen twice but I have no savegames near the first incidence and the second one actually does not end as result of assassination but does end the next turn?

[Shahed]

Flavius Why do you want to end the Crusade ?

Personally nothing makes me feel better than to have a Crusade declared against me. As Turks you're almost certain to have all of Europe breathing down your neck anyway, almost no matter what you do. The more powerful you get the more DoWs (Declarations of War) you'll accumulate.

My current sig is what happened to the first Spanish Crusade, ambushed just outside Constantinople. 30% killed in action, 70% taken prisoner, and released, so they can come back for more (training for my troops).


This is a Sicilan Crusade, in it's final moments.


There's 4 Crusade armies camped at the southern Constantinople land bridge, headed to Antioch. They cannot pass because the strait is blocked by the navy. The AI does not suffer desertion penalties. I've trained almost 2 full stacks of cavalry to experience 9 status, and am now beginning to battle harden my Janissaries and infantry, who might play a greater role against the Mongols and Timurids. It is a challenge though, to take out 3-4 stacks with 1 stack and lose less than 10-15%. It is possible with all cavalry armies. The Crusading armies usually have at least 50% (dead) infantry. Only their heavy cavalry and artillery can manage to put up a decent show, sometimes. I love Crusades, sure beats the tedium of the rebels ! :)



I do understand the frustration of losing the fleets though. You found them again did'nt you ?

[katank]

Haha, good one Sinan. I'd recommend training up a few more stacks of cav though. v9 Siphais are just too awesome for words to describe.

With a few such uber stacks, you can give the Mongols a licking in the field.

[Shahed]

Yeah I did a battle today (forwarded the campaign just to test). I think I'm just going to forward till 1200 and play form there. Am playing on 0.5 so it's taking forever. The empire is from Marrakesh to Tbilisi so takes ages each turn.

WOW ! All cavalry vs mostly cavalry... was hard to keep up but immesely enjoyable. I loved it ! Timurids are harder IMO. Elephant Rocketeers ???? WTH ???

[katank]

Elephant rocketeers is a cheat unit (you can give yourself one for kicks). Timurid stacks often contain 2 arquebusier eles and 2 culverin eles (all 6 xp and major pain in the rear). Horse archers are useless against them.

Try ballistas or merc rocket launchers and if you can protect em, naffatun. Jav cav could work well but alas you get none as the Turks.

[Shahed]

How do you give yourself one ?

I'm thinking of modding in some more mercs, for flavor. Desert cav would be one I'd do. I would like to use it against the Timurids but I won't, I'll restrict it to North Africa where it belongs. As "colonials". Tuaregs would be another I'd like to do.

[katank]

create_unit <city name> "Elephant Rocketeer" <# of units> <exp> <weapon upgrades> <armour upgrades>

It's fun to play around with. Unlike the mounted longbowmen, they have actual unit graphics and everything. I noticed the ele rockets while browsing the descr_unit file.

[Shahed]

Thanks. Yeah just before Ras published his stat tables, I was going to post about those as I saw them in the file too. Never got around to cheking it out further. This is going to be fun, lol.

[Shahed]

Last night it actually worked to create those, were a riot ! It's not working right now though:

"create_unit Constantinople elephant_rocketeer 1 1"

That's correct yeah ?

[katank]

I think there should be 4 numbers at the end for # of units, exp level, weap level, and armour level.

[Sir Boo]

Well either wait til the pope dies or take matters into your own hands :D