Twas messing around and...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I saved my game and then did process_cq many times in a bunch of settlements. At first it was to see what was recruitable, if anything, in some places.

First off, in many places there is nothing available to recruit with the first level native MIC, but then some stuff on the second and third tier. This is deceptive (that there is going to be nothing, ever), but that doesn't matter. What does is that the AI won't build the first tier if it is useless to them, and thus none of the the others later.

Second: As Romani there is nothing to recruit from any of the captured Karthaginian islands, at any tier. Including Baleric Slingers. Will there be something in the future or did the Romans never recruit local troops on the islands?

Also: I built all the buildings available in Roma (large_city), then added population and built the Imperial Palace. No new buildings were available for construction. I had only one level of smith (I understand there is a dislike of weapon upgrades, so I wasn't suprised), three levels of health (no more "water supply"?), two levels of arenas (3 counting game field), two levels of library, etc... , but the thing that suprised me the most was that I only had three levels of market. There is no large forums or "curia"?

Semi-unrelated question: What is the advantage of Latifundias, other than triggering the second reforms? They have population growth and negitive happiness, the two things I avoid the most.

[MSB]

EB does not work on a "size of settlement gets beter buildings" system. You can build top level buildings in small towns if you want to.

The latfundia increases income from farming (I think).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

EB does not work on a "size of settlement gets beter buildings" system. You can build top level buildings in small towns if you want to.

I'm all for that, though I seems that entertainment and markets should only evolve with city size. (And they do, they just stop at city.)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Good catch. The 4th level has a "and not" when it should be "and". A result from our changes when the govts were different complexes instead of different levels within one complex.

Let us know if you see any further problems if you do that again.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Oh yeah. I looked at the EDB and that is why I couldn't upgrade my arenas either, they required the great_forum.

I'll probably do that again when I conquer a new region (building a new legion to invade Epirus).

What of units in "dry" regoins? Shouldn't there at least be a placeholder for each faction in each province? (I understand that the recruitment system is alot of work and things are unavoidably overlooked.)

[nikolai1962]

What does is that the AI won't build the first tier if it is useless to them, and thus none of the the others later.

Surprisingly, the AI does build useless buildings (at least sometimes). In my personal mod I moved all the units recruitment to the barracks so the stables and missiles buildings gave no benefit at all. I haven't removed the actual buildings yet and in my testing games the AI cities are full of practice fields and stables.

(Vanilla) Stables and practice fields may be a special case in the hard coding or maybe they just build *something* when they have nothing else to build and spare cash. There's a bad vanilla trait a governor can get if there is something to build and available cash but they don't build - so it seems possible the AI is programmed to always build when it can.

On the other hand my personal mod has far fewer buildings so the AI gets to the point where it has built everything useful sooner. So maybe in EB's case, if the AI builds the first tier *last* this could mean they get to the second tier much later than it would if the first-tier had units.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Surprisingly, the AI does build useless buildings (at least sometimes). In my personal mod I moved all the units recruitment to the barracks so the stables and missiles buildings gave no benefit at all. I haven't removed the actual buildings yet and in my testing games the AI cities are full of practice fields and stables.

(Vanilla) Stables and practice fields may be a special case in the hard coding or maybe they just build *something* when they have nothing else to build and spare cash. There's a bad vanilla trait a governor can get if there is something to build and available cash but they don't build - so it seems possible the AI is programmed to always build when it can.

On the other hand my personal mod has far fewer buildings so the AI gets to the point where it has built everything useful sooner. So maybe in EB's case, if the AI builds the first tier *last* this could mean they get to the second tier much later than it would if the first-tier had units.

Are you sure they didn't start with those buidings? Wierd.
As of RTW1.2 the AI would not build useless buildings.
This brings up another question, has anyone ever seen the AI build a "Library"(Academy)?

[Foot]

completely off-topic, but something I noticed.

'twas = "it was" not "I was".

Foot

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

You know how some people talk about themselves in the third person? I talk about myself in the third person neutral pronoun.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I didn't want to start a new thread and this fits here.

I noticed that the Romans can't build many levels to ports. They get the one with 4 trade fleets if lucky. And they definately can't do any of the largescale port upgrades (the only thing I've seen with the vanilla barracks UI icon, btw). Is this to represent the near fear of the sea that the Romans have? To me it doesn't seem fair, maybe if all non-seafaring factions lacked this, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyways these are trade ports and the Romans loved trade.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

There is something up with the Hippodromes (level 2+). I built one in Athens and somewhere else (I think, I can't find it), but I don't even have the option to build them anywhere else. In the EDB there is a not goverment entry, I removed the not and now I am able to build them in all towns (and maybe where I am not suppost to).

Plus /\ last post /\

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thanks Marcus, you've been a big help on these issues. Both post 10 and 11 are good ones - just add "seleucid" to your EDB entries for portup, dockyard, and shipwrightup if you want romans to get access to those levels - it is clearly a mistake on our part. And you were right about the cavalry_barracks level having an incorrect "not" too! Let me know if you want one of those EB Auxiliary signature banners and I'll get you one (faction of your choice).

[blacksnail]

If you do so, make sure it is in the following format:

seleucid,

Note the comma, which is vital even if it's the last one in the line.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Cool. I already added seleucid, to the entries. Though I was unsure if I was cheating (maybe Rome wasn't suppost to get good ports?), good to hear it's not. Btw, there are what seem to be temperary faction lists (for future complexity?) for all simple ports, they lack "seleucid," too.

Auxiliary? I love Rome!

[blacksnail]

Probably with 0.82 I'll include a public release of the EB Building Summary sheet in my .sig - possibly a graphical version! - which we are using to track errors or changes between versions.

[salvo]

o.k first of all I's like to thank all of the EB team members for their great work
reading this thread and playing as the romans myself I'd like to fix the issues reported here

I suppose that by EDB you mean the file export_descr_buildings.txt in the /EC/Data folder

I have two (maybe dumb) questions regarding theses issues

why do I have to add the line seleucid in order to get these buildings accessible for the romans?

I found the cavalry_barracks entry and there is indeed a not modifier but before removing it I'd like to know what it is logic there, as I noticed that there is a more not modifier for circus_maximus while it is missing for hippodrome.

cavalry_barracks requires factions { seleucid, } and not building_present_min_level government gov3

I understand it this way:

if I remove the not modifier, the requirement for this building would be level 3 gov building

but it this not contradictory to the line for next level building which says

hippodrome requires factions { seleucid, } and building_present_min_level government gov2 and not hidden_resource not_here

the next level equestrian building would require a lower level gov building than its lower level?


sorry if I have misunderstood the logic implemeted there

thanks again for your mod and support

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The "not" should indeed be removed. We want the 'cavalry_barracks' available in more places, so the min level is just a gov3, but the next level - hippodrome - we want it restricted more to "roman" lands, so we require the type2 gov or higher. Lots of our buildings progress this way - the best ones are only available in your homelands with the best governments. It's another reason why we suggest type4's are best for already built up cities, as you can't build some of the best stuff in a type4 province.