The algorithm of least astonishment

[katank]

Umm, AI invasion is utterly whack now. Before the patch, they didn't do it at all. Now, they do it every time.

Note that you can probably ceasefire with them if you want. Often, naval invasions are the result of a rogue general. They always invade and accept a ceasefire. Weird.

[nameless]

Curious about something if the AI is doing the same thing were doing.

You know when you want an army to get from Point A to point B, let's say they have to cross 5 provinces but you know where it is so you click on B and so you get that rainbow color line running from A to B. In about 5 turns, the army will reach the target and of course engage automatically each turn.

Now, what happens if during those turns you decide to get a ceasefire? You go forth and call a ceasefire but next turn you forgot to call off the army and the army ends up breaking the treaty and calling for war.

Of course, I'm not sure how the AI mechanics work or if it's doing the same thing were doing.

Umm, AI invasion is utterly whack now. Before the patch, they didn't do it at all. Now, they do it every time.

Well the thing is is that everyone complained about the AI not doing naval invasions at all. The problem of course is that the AI needs to be reined in a little bit from going overboard.

[zandor]

Well the thing is is that everyone complained about the AI not doing naval invasions at all. The problem of course is that the AI needs to be reined in a little bit from going overboard.

It seems like the sea is one big highway to the AI, though I suspect there's some sort of range determination going on as well. I know a lot of Mediterranean factions have ships, but they've never come close in my game as England.

I think what need to be done is the AI set to attack overseas only when a piece of land close to the target is held or it's at war with the owner. Crete will be attacked if the AI holds part of Greece, Corsica & Sardinia if it holds a province in France or NW Italy. The Danes should still attack Britain of course... they were doing that well before the time MTW2 takes place. Basically just a simple mapping would do. Provinces X, Y, and Z are considered adjacent to island B, etc. for purposes of war starting.

If you're at war though everything should change. The range calculation should still be in effect, so Egypt won't invade by sea Britain unless they've expanded into the Iberian peninsula or the north coast of Europe even if they're at war.

[OMGLAZERS]

Your best bet is to head to the mod section here or at twcenter and grab an AI mod update to help improve the dumb dumb dumb AI that CA has unleashed on the world.

[Satyr]

"The algorithm of least astonishment!"

I love it! That is exactly what one should expect in a game. That is no where near what CA ever provides. It seems to me that either CA needs a better project manager/lead programmer, or better structure design in MTW. They just seem sort of overwhelmed and keep introducing the same mistakes over and over with no consideration for your rule. After playing with the patch, I am not even sure they understand how their monster works and they certainly can no longer control it. Hopefully the tools they have provided to the community to mod with are sufficient to make up for their deficits.

[Zenicetus]

"The algorithm of least astonishment!"

I love it! That is exactly what one should expect in a game. That is no where near what CA ever provides. It seems to me that either CA needs a better project manager/lead programmer, or better structure design in MTW. They just seem sort of overwhelmed and keep introducing the same mistakes over and over with no consideration for your rule. After playing with the patch, I am not even sure they understand how their monster works and they certainly can no longer control it. Hopefully the tools they have provided to the community to mod with are sufficient to make up for their deficits.

Okay, but look at what the OP said about the unexpected action of the Scottish AI:

So what does the Scottish AI do?

Remember the The algorithm of least astonishment?

They sail past all those prime and logical targets, and they declare war on me!

Well, we'll see what happens when scads of armored highland nobles meet scads of Huscarls. I have a feeling they'll fight hard since they fleet they sailed over on is now gone.

It was too late last night to start the slug fest, so I'll try it tonight.

But in a way I'm glad its happened. It certainly spiced things up a bit.

Don't underestimate the power of astonishment, people. It's what can make a game interesting and have replay value, even if we're not sure if the wackiness is due to actual bugs, or just random factors.

Do we want the conquest of the map by the AI factions to follow a script that plays out exactly the same way each time? Or do we want different, "emergent" outcomes every time we play a new campaign?

Speaking for myself, I don't want to see absolute craziness, but I also don't want a predictable game where I can safely assume that Faction A will always do this, and Faction B will always do that. It's a question of balance, and maybe some "odd" or even buggy decisions by the AI are necessary to keep things unpredictable and challenging.

[katank]

Well, I agree there should be variety. The thing is that there should be some rhyme or reason to their invasion and not just variety for sake of variety. Random attacks that leave their homebase undefended and not taking easier pickings closer to home is silly.

Getting 90% of their armed forces sunk due to putting everything into one ship is beyond dumb. In my Russian game, the Danes didn't take Hamburg but instead sailed for Bruges. A castle closer to home would have served their interest far better. Then again, I decided to go crazy navally as well myself that game and promptly took over Arhus and destroyed Scotland in the first 15 or so turns.