Loose vs Close; Which to Use When

[OMGLAZERS]

Which units do you believe perform better (in 1.1) in a loose formation than a close formation?

Some people say spears form a better pinning unit in close, while others say they can attack more often in a loose.

Or that 2H's (Fixed, with Zxiang's patch) do similar in loose considering the big weapons they are swinging.

So whats everyone's opinion on Loose vs Close?

[katank]

When being hit by missiles or receiving a cav charge, use loose. For close quarters combat, close is probably better.

[metatron]

Which units do you believe perform better (in 1.1) in a loose formation than a close formation?

Some people say spears form a better pinning unit in close, while others say they can attack more often in a loose.

Or that 2H's (Fixed, with Zxiang's patch) do similar in loose considering the big weapons they are swinging.

So whats everyone's opinion on Loose vs Close?

Generally, close is preferred unless you're under missile fire.

Don't know about the two-handers, but I do believe that any unit in loose suffers a morale penalty and I know for a fact that they won't fight as organized or effectively.

[katank]

Note that cav charges absolutely wreck tight units while loose units can interrupt their charging and not take so many casualties. Very counter intuitive but works.

[OMGLAZERS]

Note that cav charges absolutely wreck tight units while loose units can interrupt their charging and not take so many casualties. Very counter intuitive but works.

And this is why I started the thread :P

So, have you got a research thread that discusses this?

I would THINK tight spearmen would be able to resist a cav charge if they were deeper.

[Cuff]

Interesting idea. I'm going to test melee match ups with loose formations.

[RomoR]

I have made some research on this since day 3 or 4 when the game came out and you can read it at the battle-map research sticky thread. posts 16/17 and 60 https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72168

I also made a post in the forums about tight and loose melee fighting but I can't find it, I made it after wining the Historical battle of agincourt 2 times in a row with my whole army set to loose formation, melee units get a moral hit but has moral was upped since rome it doesn'nt make much of a differnece, haven't tried this after the patch though.

I can tell you that in one on one same unit encounters the loose formation always wins since it gets the flanking bonus, kills any gerneral/captain early and protects yours better.

Edit found that first post: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72422

[OMGLAZERS]

Reading your results totally crushed me.

It's supposed to be that tight can crush Loose!

What the heck is going on here? =\

[katank]

Funky stuff with charging. I've had cases where my perfectly formed formation charges towards the AI who are in some horribly whack formation with a lone guy far out front. My formation proceeds to bend around that one guy like a rubber band and not perform a proper charge, then getting slaughtered.

I found that funkified formation can mess up charges and now place in front of my lines a couple of spear units 2 deep and in loose. Destroys cav charges every time.

[Shahed]

Hey thanks for mentioning that in another thread katank. Forgot to thank you there. I tried it as well and it works. The more you can move, the more you can be disorderly but yet ordered seems to be best. I beat French Lancers using 2 spear militia. The system is messed. They've tried to make many differentiations in classes and status of units but what's happened is quite er... wierd.

[metatron]

Reading your results totally crushed me.

It's supposed to be that tight can crush Loose!

What the heck is going on here? =\

Exactly, there's a bug here folks...