Loose vs Close; Which to Use When

**Cuff** · 12-24-2006, 00:55

Interesting idea. I'm going to test melee match ups with loose formations.

**RomoR** · 12-24-2006, 01:18

I have made some research on this since day 3 or 4 when the game came out and you can read it at the battle-map research sticky thread. posts 16/17 and 60 https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72168

I also made a post in the forums about tight and loose melee fighting but I can't find it, I made it after wining the Historical battle of agincourt 2 times in a row with my whole army set to loose formation, melee units get a moral hit but has moral was upped since rome it doesn'nt make much of a differnece, haven't tried this after the patch though.

I can tell you that in one on one same unit encounters the loose formation always wins since it gets the flanking bonus, kills any gerneral/captain early and protects yours better.

Edit found that first post: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72422

**OMGLAZERS** · 12-24-2006, 01:47

Reading your results totally crushed me.

It's supposed to be that tight can crush Loose!

What the heck is going on here? =\

**katank** · 12-24-2006, 02:05

Funky stuff with charging. I've had cases where my perfectly formed formation charges towards the AI who are in some horribly whack formation with a lone guy far out front. My formation proceeds to bend around that one guy like a rubber band and not perform a proper charge, then getting slaughtered.

I found that funkified formation can mess up charges and now place in front of my lines a couple of spear units 2 deep and in loose. Destroys cav charges every time.

**Shahed** · 12-24-2006, 02:36

Hey thanks for mentioning that in another thread katank. Forgot to thank you there. I tried it as well and it works. The more you can move, the more you can be disorderly but yet ordered seems to be best. I beat French Lancers using 2 spear militia. The system is messed. They've tried to make many differentiations in classes and status of units but what's happened is quite er... wierd.

**katank** · 12-24-2006, 02:49

No problem. Yeah, things are a bit weird right now. Spears get pwned by everything (militia spears die to archer militia!). Loose pwns tight etc.

How'd you win against lancers with 2 spear miltia? Snared them with loose formation in a forest or something? Either way, I'm impressed. Heavy cav often punches clean through lines.

**Shahed** · 12-24-2006, 02:56

There was a height advantage, though almost negligible. Map was Saharan Sands or what's it called ?

I just walked down the hill to meet the Lancers at the bottom. First charge routed the 2 deep loose formation SM in front.
Charged my General SM in 4 deep loose formation and rallied the other unit. The Lancers started to withdraw, charged both SM into them, they routed. It was mostly the same result, 4-5 times or as many times as it took for me to get through my 2 BigMacs.

See in this case you should really have to use dedicated halberds, gunpowder, or strong spears i.e DSLs, Armored Sargents etc. But as it is now SM can do the trick if used "improperly". Giving sub classes to units can be interesting, but then you have to go all the way.