Loose vs Close; Which to Use When

**OMGLAZERS** · 12-24-2006, 01:47

Reading your results totally crushed me.

It's supposed to be that tight can crush Loose!

What the heck is going on here? =\

**katank** · 12-24-2006, 02:05

Funky stuff with charging. I've had cases where my perfectly formed formation charges towards the AI who are in some horribly whack formation with a lone guy far out front. My formation proceeds to bend around that one guy like a rubber band and not perform a proper charge, then getting slaughtered.

I found that funkified formation can mess up charges and now place in front of my lines a couple of spear units 2 deep and in loose. Destroys cav charges every time.

**Shahed** · 12-24-2006, 02:36

Hey thanks for mentioning that in another thread katank. Forgot to thank you there. I tried it as well and it works. The more you can move, the more you can be disorderly but yet ordered seems to be best. I beat French Lancers using 2 spear militia. The system is messed. They've tried to make many differentiations in classes and status of units but what's happened is quite er... wierd.

**katank** · 12-24-2006, 02:49

No problem. Yeah, things are a bit weird right now. Spears get pwned by everything (militia spears die to archer militia!). Loose pwns tight etc.

How'd you win against lancers with 2 spear miltia? Snared them with loose formation in a forest or something? Either way, I'm impressed. Heavy cav often punches clean through lines.

**Shahed** · 12-24-2006, 02:56

There was a height advantage, though almost negligible. Map was Saharan Sands or what's it called ?

I just walked down the hill to meet the Lancers at the bottom. First charge routed the 2 deep loose formation SM in front.
Charged my General SM in 4 deep loose formation and rallied the other unit. The Lancers started to withdraw, charged both SM into them, they routed. It was mostly the same result, 4-5 times or as many times as it took for me to get through my 2 BigMacs.

See in this case you should really have to use dedicated halberds, gunpowder, or strong spears i.e DSLs, Armored Sargents etc. But as it is now SM can do the trick if used "improperly". Giving sub classes to units can be interesting, but then you have to go all the way.

**dopp** · 12-24-2006, 03:42

Originally Posted by Sinan

There was a height advantage, though almost negligible. Map was Saharan Sands or what's it called ?

I just walked down the hill to meet the Lancers at the bottom. First charge routed the 2 deep loose formation SM in front.
Charged my General SM in 4 deep loose formation and rallied the other unit. The Lancers started to withdraw, charged both SM into them, they routed. It was mostly the same result, 4-5 times or as many times as it took for me to get through my 2 BigMacs.

See in this case you should really have to use dedicated halberds, gunpowder, or strong spears i.e DSLs, Armored Sargents etc. But as it is now SM can do the trick if used "improperly". Giving sub classes to units can be interesting, but then you have to go all the way.

The morale penalty for loose formation should be set much higher, enough to send the whole unit packing when anything formed up even approaches. That will solve the cavalry charge problem somewhat, because the archers/skirmishers will rout almost immediately and the charge will turn into a chase.

**Shahed** · 12-24-2006, 03:50

That's a good idea. It would have to be accompanied by a spear fix of course to compensate that you'd now lose your only spear defence against charge i.e loose formation.

They usually do rout instantly most of the times I've seen. I always use 2 or 3 cavalry vs one archer unit -> bagging -> insta rout.

**antisocialmunky** · 12-24-2006, 05:21

Originally Posted by dopp

The morale penalty for loose formation should be set much higher, enough to send the whole unit packing when anything formed up even approaches. That will solve the cavalry charge problem somewhat, because the archers/skirmishers will rout almost immediately and the charge will turn into a chase.

It would make sense if the uber-morale penalty should apply only to formation units like pikes/spears and the not-so-uber morale penalty for swords, horsies, elephants, and halberds... etc. Imagine elephants in loose going amok when something formed up approaches.