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  1. #1
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    A for fun project!

    Assume you are designing field armies (general purpose land combat) to combat opponents in more-or-less conventional warfare.

    Each army may have a total combat troop strength of 100,000 persons.

    You may combine troops of any nation or sub-era within the larger frameworks listed, but may not equip them with equipment better/substantially different then their own sub-era.

    The eras in question:

    Muscle-powered: 3500 BCE through 1350 CE

    Gunpowder Era:1350 through 1850 CE

    Early Modern: 1851 though 1960 CE

    Later Modern: 1961 CE through Present


    Delineate your forces and the reason for that composition.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    wait so were fighting an equal size army and can have the entire thing modern?
    why wouldn't we lets say emplace tens of thousands of men with top of the line M82A2 snipers and F-22s
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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    yeah... when i choose muscle power my enemies chooses nukes... wata...

    but for the project i'll choose medieval warfare from between 800 till 1100

    ill edit the composition in later

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    I meant one "ideal" field army (land/tactical forces, so integral helo units etc. yes, but stealth bombers no) for and within EACH of those eras. Or whichever ones for which you wish to do so. So if you want Welsh Longbowmen working with your Legios go ahead. Combining Sharpe's Rifles with Kampfgruppe Peiper is, however, not allowed -- different tech base.

    Besides, lining up a company of M1A2 Abrams against all the forces at Cannae is the sort of thing that appeals only to 9 year olds and hemomaniacs.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    Elephant Master Member Conqueror's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    I don't think there's such a thing as an ideal field army. The performance of any combination of troops depends too much on the environment where the combat will take place. One could try and come up with optimized setups for each environment type though.

    RTW, 167 BC: Rome expels Greek philosophers after the Lex Fannia law is passed. This bans the effete and nasty Greek practice of 'philosophy' in favour of more manly, properly Roman pursuits that don't involve quite so much thinking.

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conqueror
    I don't think there's such a thing as an ideal field army. The performance of any combination of troops depends too much on the environment where the combat will take place. One could try and come up with optimized setups for each environment type though.
    ...oh, goodie. I'd managed to get this far without realizing that life etc. is relative. Thanks for getting me up to speed on that rather than just having a bit of fun with this.

    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    Maybe the periods are a bit long? With such long eras, I'd mostly take units from the end of each of the periods... Anyway:

    Muscle-powered: 3500 BCE through 1350 CE:
    * Missiles:
    - foot archers could be either: Welsh/English longbowmen, Indian longbows, or archer footmen from some steppe culture
    - horse archers: horse archers of any steppe culture. Armed with bows with extreme range as their main weapon, and curved sword as secondary weapon
    * Artillery:
    - Mongol/Khazar mobile field artillery
    - French slightly heavier field artillery
    * Infantry:
    - give all infantry plenty of backup weapons. All soldiers who aren't in a forward rank and participating in melee should be able to constantly rain down morale breaking and damaging missiles over their enemies ahead. Pilums, darts, heavy throwing spears, slings, small bows, crossbows/arbalests and if allowed also some of the early primitive pistols could be used.
    - FIRST LINE: massed formations of Swiss pikemen and halberdiers forming a stable battle line. Give them a backup light sword and a round shield strapped on the back. The pikemen should carry heavy armor and with large hats to protect them from missiles. This formation should be the largest part of the force. Spartan hoplites would do in case there would be a shortage of Swiss troops
    - SECOND LINE: marian legionaries with their square shields and pilums should constitute the second largest part of the infantry force, and be used to cover the rear and flanks
    - RESERVE: light Scottish pikemen/spearmen as a flexible light infantry with schiltrom formation, kept in reserve. Macedonian light phalanx troops could also fit into this pool.
    - RESERVE: English billmen, also kept in reserve
    - RESERVE: a few of the different semi-legendary fanatics/elite troops that existed during the era, armed with "cruel and unusual weapons" to break formations and morale, also kept in reserve
    * CAVALRY:
    - the heavy cavalry of most steppe cultures
    - parthian/sassanid clibanarii and cataphracts
    - crusader knights


    Gunpowder Era:1350 through 1850 CE:
    * INFANTRY:
    - any would do. Take any riflemen with good rifles (compromise of range, accuracy and reload speed) and good discipline from the Napoleonic era to form the bulk of the army. Armed with these rifles for normal combat, crossbows for silent and longer range engagement, a sword for melee and two small pistols that they can fire quickly and throw away without reloading. Then take any infantry well armed for melee and with great morale to use for charging and pinning enemies
    * GRENADIERS:
    - any would do
    * CAVALRY:
    - not sure cavalry was of much use towards the end of the era, but light lancers of any kind would do. The most important thing for them would be speed, then effectiveness of the charge
    - any steppe horse archers for scouting and harassing
    * ARTILLERY:
    - a large contingent of French or Prussian mobile horse artillery. Naturally to be amassed and used in Napoleon-style massive barrages targetting a single enemy unit at the time
    - a large contingent of as heavy as possible (that can still be moved with the troops) artillery with as long range as possible for sieges and bombarding fortified positions. This formation should include higher trajectory weapons too.


    Early Modern: 1851 though 1960 CE:
    Pretty pointless, because such drastic change took place in 1918 and 1945, as well as between 1945 and 1960, that only weapons from 1960 would be worth considering... A good mix of all weapon types, including sniper, light machinegunner, heavy machinegunner, AT soldier, light AT soldier, assault rifle soldiers, grenadiers, light grenadiers. Heavy tanks attack choppers and tank destroyers to support the infantry, and a strong force of fighter planes to take out enemy fighters and bombers. A few own bombers too. That's pretty much it. Improving the quality of the fighters give air supremacy, which given enough time gives armor superiority, which gives general superiority on the ground. An excellent and unbeatable army in regular war, but quite useless against guerilla/resistance/freedom fighters.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 12-26-2006 at 18:01.
    Under construction...

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  8. #8
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    oke.

    The legionares of Ceasar, swiss pikemen, Samurai 50,000 men

    Welsh longbowmen, Genuese Crossbowmen 15,000 men

    Byzantine Cats, Turkish Sipahi of Porte, Mongol Horse Archers 30,000 men

    French Artillery (as in mangonels and such) 5,000 men

    15,000 Swiss Pikemen on both flanks, 25,000 legionaries in the middle. 10,000 samurai to fill in the gaps or counter attack. this is /----\ the army setup.

    10,000 longbowmen behind the infantry lines, 5,000 genuese crossbowmen infront of the infantry to pepper the closing enemies and after that they retreat behind the infantry, fire all their arrows, and help the samurai with their role.

    Cavalry screening the flanks of the infantry, performing counter attacks and raids on the enemy flanks. Cavalry archers to lure enemies into traps and shower them with arrows whilst staying outof range...

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    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Design: A Christmas Treat!

    How fun! I wish I had more time to go into detail but due to a long weekend I am forced to actually get some work done today

    I am a firm believer in the old saying, the best defense is a good offence, so I would lean on the side of the more aggressive and fast army in any era. The early Roman* armies (during the expanding phase rather than their retreating phase) seem like a pretty rounded yet more offensive type of army, infused with a dash more mobile artillery and Calvary and some clever Mongolian style tactics would be a pretty good example of how I would structure any eras army just replacing the troops with their newer counterparts as each era allowed. Additionally I would get into the air asap, at first just for scouting and later for troop support and surgical strikes, he who controls the skies, controls the world!


    *I guess I could replace the Romans with my personal favorite Samurai’s but I think the organized strength of the Romans army is greater than a samurai army, as the samurais seem to have more emphasis on individual combat rather than the team work the Romans had. That said, I still think an individual average samurai could waste any other individual average combatant from a similar era, but an army of them would probably get their butts handed to them when facing legionaries, knights, etc.
    Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi

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