Need an actual "Charge" button

[GotGame36]

We need a button to push to get our calvary to charge instead of "R".......ANY BUTTON !!!!!

I have tried everything to get the charge to work right......double tapping the "R" button......double clicking the right mouse button on a unit......pressing the right mouse button once and letting the cavalry attack on it's own.....pressing "R" once and letting the knights do the rest.....and nothing.

I set up my calvary in perfect position.....perfect distance.....and then give the charge order.....then nothing.

I think I actually get a real charge once or twice every ten times.
Sometimes they even go into charge mode ,then stop and just do a normal attack.

We need an actual charge button or icon....I know it is probably to late for the icon but if they added a button to push then the charge issue would be fixed. Any button would work....for example.....keep "R" as the walk/run button and make "C" the actual charge order.

I hope they fix this in the future.

[noodles]

tho this things been talked about for miles here's my 2c - charge works pretty well and feels better when u pull it off - what i would change is something so that the terrain doesnt mess it up that often.

my easy way to ensure a good hit: just see that they have their lances equipped and face the enemy - single click attack - and when they lower the lances press r(once) to give them speed and make sure they dont stop just before the enemy line

[metatron]

Just spread your men out in two lines, give them at least three units of distance to run over flat, open terrain, and double click on the target (has to be directly infront of them).

Works just about every time.

[Forward Observer]

We need a button to push to get our calvary to charge instead of "R".......ANY BUTTON !!!!!

I have tried everything to get the charge to work right......double tapping the "R" button......double clicking the right mouse button on a unit......pressing the right mouse button once and letting the cavalry attack on it's own.....pressing "R" once and letting the knights do the rest.....and nothing.

I set up my calvary in perfect position.....perfect distance.....and then give the charge order.....then nothing.

I think I actually get a real charge once or twice every ten times.
Sometimes they even go into charge mode ,then stop and just do a normal attack.

We need an actual charge button or icon....I know it is probably to late for the icon but if they added a button to push then the charge issue would be fixed. Any button would work....for example.....keep "R" as the walk/run button and make "C" the actual charge order.

I hope they fix this in the future.

The weak charges and loss of cavalry unit cohesion has been an ongoing topic since the game was released.

Before the patch the cavalry units were serviceable, and although they required a bit more management their performance was actually fairly realistic. Personally I thought they were just fine pre-patch.

The problem is that everybody complained about them so much that CA tried to tweak them for the patch and in the process turned them into almost total nerf units.

The're lind of like billmen on uncontrollable horses now. Maybe next patch--

Cheers

[Shahed]

I'm having no issues at all, and I'm using only cavalry, ALL the time. in fact I find it much easier to charge post patch, although I barely had a problem to do it before either.

Lucky me.

Today I had a battle 600 Turks vs 1100 HRE, I only did headfirst charge because most of them were poor Crusading infantry. Killed my Sultan unfortunately in that charge. He just had to die, damm fool. For the rest Heroic victory, approx 70 losses to approx 900 KIA and 100 prisoners.

[mrbrownstain]

A cavalry charge is not just a push of the button. It requires (as the two previous replies hint at) a coordinated effort on behalf of the entire unit. The horses often feed of each others' energy as well as the command of the riders. The captain has to communicate and lead his men into the charge. It actually builds up from a trot and eventually becomes an all out race to an objective past the intended target for full effect.

With this in mind I find it appropriate that it takes some practice in technique to do it properly. I love the charge feature of the game. I also thought I noticed that with more experience, the riders can build a charge more efficiently so that they are less affected by distractions and obtacles.They seem to respond to commands quicker with experience.

[BigTex]

Indeed solid cavalry charges are very difficult to pull off. As they should be, because the barded+ horses can decimate even the heaviest infantry in an instant. They were also historically difficult to pull off. As one turkish general put it, waiting and maneuvering for the perfect cavalry charge means certain defeat.

You need flat, open space for a solid charge. Need at least 3 units space away. Though the more the better I prefer at least 200 yards. For a more devastating charge, first start your cavalry moving (not attacking) towards the enemy at a normal march pace. Then after they are moving and have organized themselves again into a straight line, double click on the enemy. This will cause a full speed, well disciplined charge. With the heavier horses they can decimate multiple units at once.

Important, maneuvering careful double clicking when a unit is stationary will cause the cavalry to become disorganized. Also be careful, waiting for the perfect area for a cavalry charge usually means putting yourself in a disadvantageous position.

[Spark]

Pre-patch cavalry work just fine. You need to set them up properly for the charge, but it always works when you do. As long as the unit in question isn't moving away from you, and your cavalry are all lined up before they lower their lances, you should pull it off. You can even change their direction while they're running, and as long as it's not a big turn that breaks their formation, they can still get a charge off from a relatively close distance. I've rarely had a cavalry charge work in cities though.

[Forward Observer]

Post patch, I still get effective charges--mostly against stationary targets, such as firing missile troops. What I am not getting after the patch is decent cavalry performance in chasing down routers.

In the first medieval game, chasing down routers was the best way to score big kill counts and lots of prisoners, which in turn occasionally scored some big ransoms, and it did not require that much micro-management either.

You only had to re-direct your cavalry unit when they had killed or captured all of a particular unit. Now, unless you watch you cavalry unit every minute, they are just liable to totally lose focus, stop chasing their assigned victims, and take a coffee break.

One big difference is that in the first game the usable map areas seemed larger, which gave your cavalry more space, time, and opportunity to make big scores, but then also in the first Medieval 150 plus kills by one cavalry unit were not uncommon. This may have been totally unrealistic, but one came to depend on it.

All in all, I still say the cavalry's overall performance was better prepatch.

Cheers

[sapi]

Working perfectly for me post patch...

[GotGame36]

Thanks for the info guys.

I will keep trying to "perfect" the charge.

I did boost the cavalry's charge power by a couple points to give them an even better devastation attack.

[Shahed]

Basically this is how it works for me:

1. Line up, 4 ranks deep formation, facing the enemy in a staight line path.
2. WAIT! Make sure the enemy is not moving.
3. WAIT! Make sure 85% of the men in your units are reformed and are in their position in the formation.
4. WAIT! If they are moving or have moved you have to choose. Either go back to step 1 or draw swords. Is the enemy not moving... no ? ... ok.
5. CHARGE !

Of course this is ideal situation but it takes time to pull off a really devastating charge. Patience is key, but if done correctly with heavy cavalry one charge will destroy any enemy infantry unit. You have to watch closely the last 2 seconds before impact, if it's going wrong you should cancel the attack and reform (circumstance willing).

IMO it was better pre-patch now it's more arcade. It's funny to see cavalry veer 70 degrees at full gallop. For me it's easier now than pre patch which IMO is not good. It works though so can't complain really.

I've seen some complaints about wedge.
That too, if it's done correctly and works it will literally split the enemy unit into two pieces.

[Zenicetus]

Post patch, I still get effective charges--mostly against stationary targets, such as firing missile troops. What I am not getting after the patch is decent cavalry performance in chasing down routers.

I may be stating the obvious, but it seems to me that those two are linked. CA has said (in the developer blog notes, I think?) that they wanted the charge to work best with a unit in good formation, on charge-friendly terrain, and against fairly stationary enemy units. Units in motion would be difficult to charge, and that pretty much describes soldiers in rout.

So maybe what we need isn't a charge button (charges are working okay in my games, post-patch), but a separate "mow 'em down" button, so they'd stop that run-reform-run behavior that messes up chasing routers. It would be nice if the cav units just automatically switched to that mode... after all, the AI "knows" the targeted unit is in rout... but maybe that's asking too much.

[Shahed]

That would fix the router chase, for sure.

[katank]

Mow em down mode brings to my mind the picture of a group of knights with lances down all the time, whirling across the entire battlefield mowing everyone down.

I have a feeling that this is what OP wants. Feels way too arcadey for me.

As for rout chasing, there should be a way to say screw formation, just go after them anyway you can.

[Shahed]

I think the balanced solution would be that cavalry do not regroup while chasing routers, unless issued another command during the chase, such as halt, move to that location etc.

[Zenicetus]

Mow em down mode brings to my mind the picture of a group of knights with lances down all the time, whirling across the entire battlefield mowing everyone down.

I have a feeling that this is what OP wants. Feels way too arcadey for me.

Well, it could be a switch to secondary weapon; swords or whatever. Maybe even just plain 'ol horse trampling against unarmored units. It would be a mode that would only kick in against routers, so it couldn't be exploited in normal combat.

If CA or the modders can't figure out how to do something like that, then I don't see how chasing routers with cavalry (at least charge-based cav) can ever be fixed. The single and double click commands are designed to be used against units that are fighting back. When units flee, the pursuing cav wastes way too much time trying to re-form for a coordinated charge, which isn't necessary against men in panic with their backs turned. They just need to... mow 'em down. But maybe CA sees this differently, or maybe it's just too hard to program a separate attack routine for chasing routers.

[Von Nanega]

I have found that while chasing down routers, you have to stop the unit if it gets spread out. Then resume the chase. This results lots of time in enemy getting away. But I do not think that medieval battles always resulted in all the enemies getting caught / killed in every defeat. You have a really good view of the battlefield in the game. What would stop a few guys hiding in bushes or trees during a defeat until they could slink away? I use this logic to explain losers getting away from me.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Cavalry seems broken pre and post patch to me. Most of the time they split up...they dont respond to group commands well at all...

I know people complain about fire and forget cavalry, but this is too far the other way. Why should you have to babysit them all the time..why do they run off chasing routed units when you have ordered them to attack enemy units?

Very slow to reform..and this makes for messy charges..not good at all, and not realistic either....