Best anti-personnel artillery is ?

[Shahed]

Hi All !

What do people consider the best anti-personnel artillery and why ?

[katank]

Toss up between serpentine and rocket launcher. Serpentine's rate of fire and range is great. Rocket launcher for the devastation it causes upon a single volley, particularly in an enclosed space.

[elbasto]

Elephant artillery ;)

[katank]

LOL, those are a hax unit IMHO. In that vein, elephant rocketeers is even better.

I have a feeling that we'd be discussing field pieces rather than panzerphants.

[IrishArmenian]

Rocket Launcher or Monster Ribault.
Do cannon towers count?

[Kobal2fr]

Depends on context really.
In a flattish field battle, Serpentines are great. They're not too expensive, fire fast, and kill reasonably well.
For hilly terrain, I'd say basilisk, the increased range means that on a hilltop you can almost reach the whole map, or outreach the opponent's arty if you're the attacker. Pricey.
But for sieges, why, I'll take an order of McRibault with a side-order of multi-barreled shotgun death. Supersized please !

[pevergreen]

Monster ribault.

Theres no contest.

Its like getting the choice between a mortar and a nine barraled shotgun with long range and funnness.

[Rpkmann]

Monster Bombards!

[Musashi]

The mongol rocket launcher makes the monster ribault look like a pea shooter. It can wipe out almost an entire enemy squad (On huge unit sizes) with a single volley at point blank.

[IrishArmenian]

Well, the monster ribault or the rocket launcher work well from point blank range. For me, it is an issue of faction.
If I'm Sicily, I go with the mercenary monster bombard.
Russia, mercenary rocket launcher. That simple. They both bring the desired affect, and they both destroy units.

[geala]

In my battles a simple catapult with fire ammo normally caused more casualties among the enemy soldiers than Serpentines and Basilisks. It's a bit ridiculous. Trebuchets might even be better but I never followed the seduce to use them on battlefields.

[Zenicetus]

I like catapults too, at least for the first 2/3 of a campaign before I can gear up for gunpowder artillery. I think the game is rigged so that fire damage completely bypasses armor (which is a little silly, but what the heck). This makes fire ammo catapults great for killing enemy generals in a field battle. They don't hit that often, but when they do hit, it's spectacular.

[zulukiller]

I like catapults too, at least for the first 2/3 of a campaign before I can gear up for gunpowder artillery. I think the game is rigged so that fire damage completely bypasses armor (which is a little silly, but what the heck). This makes fire ammo catapults great for killing enemy generals in a field battle. They don't hit that often, but when they do hit, it's spectacular.

Yeah id say thats the most effective artillery peace in game the AI is always using it to snipe my generals. It just seems to me a lot more men die per volley with the catapult compared to gunpowder weapons although gunpowder units are great at takeing out enemy walls and deffense much better than a catapult.

[Blademun]

Actually, I think the serpentine comes pretty close to the catapults for kills. However, you have to give them a head start. Park your army far away from the enemy and let the Serpentines snipe them off. You can take out their artillery/general with the serpentines because they're so durn accurate. Cannon balls kill anyone they touch and have a great morale penalty.

I think the Serpentine is the best anti-personel cannon. The whole idea of anti-personnel artillery is to force initiative; the enemy just can't sit in their defensive posistion and wait for you or they'll get pounded into dust. Unlike Ribaults/Catapults, Serpentines have the range to stay out of enemy archer fire when firing up hill. They can also take out most types of artillery from range thanks to their accuracy (in this case, assuming the battlefield is relatively flat). To me, this makes them way more usefull then something you have to babysit all the way up to the enemys lines, just to get off maybe one or two good volley before the **** hits the fan.

[katank]

Serpentines are like sniper rifles while catapults are like grenades.

You can easily snipe the general with 2/3 units of serpentines while it's a matter of luck with catapults. In bridge battles though, catapults really shine.

BTW, rocket launchers are much better than monster ribaults due to their longer range. They are also no less devastating close in. Once they valor up a bit, they become even more deadly.

[Musashi]

Oh serpentines are death in bridge battles too... You just can't set them up for flanking fire, you have to fire right down the length of the bridge, because the shot will basically cut a line of dead troops from one end to the the other that way. 100+ kills with one shot is quite doable this way.

[Shahed]

Yeah I would have thought it would be serpentines, rcoket launchers (those are the best I think, but suffer short range), and catapults.

Now I'm heading towards gunpowder and "settling" down as the Turks. Introducing infantry heavy armies for guarding the borders. Want to add in some artillery, but the only option for Turks in the anti-personanel range is cannons or catapults I think. Any suggestions ?

[baron_Leo]

Hi! I always forget to build arty producing dwellings:-) I almost never use arty in open field battles, only when one of my siege armies is intercepted. But I really hate when the enemy has artillery. I usually try to destroy them with cavalry, but often, the cav gets stuck in them. Argh. But my fav. cannon is monster ribault. It's just cool.:-)

[katank]

rcoket launchers (those are the best I think, but suffer short range)

They are actually fairly long range. 250 IIRC compared with long range archer's 160. While not insane, it's quite respectable.

As the Turks, merc rocket launchers are the way to go, hands down. Throw in catapults for bridge defenses. They are invaluable for being able to fire over the heads of your men.

[Musashi]

Yeah but you don't want to actually use the rocket launcher at it's max range. It only does it's real damage potential at point blank. Seriously, try it... fire it at max range into an armored unit. You'll get 1 or 2 kills. Fire it at point blank and you'll get 100.

[katank]

Try a valored up version of rocket launchers, they are quite good even at range. Besides, I only shoot at maximal range to target eles. Those definitely are easy to hit even at range (sometimes my rockets end up sniping the crew on top).

[Aedile Rich]

Trebuchet!

Has to be worth a mention, even if only for their ability to fire out over castle walls when under siege.

[katank]

Trebs are indeed awesome if only for the "OMG, cows" factor.

[Aedile Rich]

Trebs are indeed awesome if only for the "OMG, cows" factor.

Oh LOL, yes!
How could I forget that?

[Quillan]

Fetchez la vache!

[Shahed]

LOL!

Ok merc rocket launchers it is then.

I hate short range .. ugh yeah it's not terrible but you know what I'd like is a cross between a serpentine and a cannon. Faster rate of fire than a cannon and longer range than a serpentine. Besides those rcoket launchers will be getting shot up by xbows and all.

AVANCEE LA VACHE !

[Forward Observer]

My vote for the most versatile and best all around man killing siege engine goes to the lowly ballista. In the first Medieval game the ballista was just not that useful, but as modeled in Medieval 2, with mobility and in the "flame on" mode, it is the equivalent of a medieval RPG and is the work horse of most of my western armies.

Besides being the cheapest and the earliest “big gun” one can acquire, it is also the most consistently accurate--making it not only useful in sieges but also in field battles.

In reality the ballista was more of a Roman period weapon and was hardly used in the middle ages in favor of the heavier stuff like the trebuchet, but what makes it so useful in this game is its consistent accuracy--better than even the gunpowder weapons.

In a siege the ballista can handle any wooden fort and take out the gates of any stone edifice. With enough of them one can actually take out a stone wall. It takes forever and is unrealistic of course, but I actually lost a city defense once to this fact. They also are better than standard archers at sniping troops through and behind the merlins on the walls

Even if I get a message that my spies have opened the gates, I blow them open anyway because many times there will be a unit parked right behind the portal and since the ballista is a flat trajectory weapon you can pick them off right through the portal. Even after I have blown down walls with my heavier stuff, the ballistae is perfect for sniping the units that will move in to block the gap.

Sure, the big boys can take out a large group with one hit, but they only hit bout 20% of the time. The ballista will generally score a hit at least 65% or more of the time, which turns it into a big bore sniper weapon. If one is shooting at troops with deep ranks the ballista can shish kabob quite a few with a single flaming bolt, and if you can manage to flank a unit so you can shoot down their ranks in perfect enfilade you can actually score up to 10 or 12 kia’s with a single two shot salvo. I think 17 dismounted knights was my best score with a single salvo. I have had single 2X ballistae units with 120 plus kill ratios after a battle. I have yet to score as many kills consistently with any other heavy gun.

I think I got about 7 guys in the shot below



In this picture, I only had one ballistae unit with just 8 men left. It had already decimated about 30 men of a feudal knight unit at anther gap when I noticed a 60man halbert unit at about a 60% angle to the wall at the front gate. All that is left is a greasy stain on the ground diagonal to the entrance. I still had enough ammo left to take out 20 to 25 more feudal knights standing next to them.


Here is a shot of a similar situation. I ended up taking out 75 spearmen and all of the generals guard including the general.


When defending, if the attacker has knocked a hole in my wall, most of the time they will not send troops in until they have knocked out any towers and maybe knock down another wall elsewhere. This can give me a chance to move ballista unit into the gap. On several occasions by doing this I was able to completely disable all of the attacker's siege equipment before they could do any real further damage.

In a besieged situation, and if I determine that the attackers are made up of small armies and do not have a their own engines, I sally on the first move. This does not allow them to build towers or rams. Since I play with the timer off, I have to make them rout or take a loss. If they do not have missile units, I simply roll my ballista out the front gates and start pouring it on.

Alternately, if they do have archers, but everybody is safe behind the walls, my absolute favorite tactic is to put together a small hit squad of a couple of ballistae units along with what ever I can spare for protection--maybe a couple of heavy infantry, as many archer units, and some mounted knights. I then take these out one of the side gates and make a wide circle around to come in on the flanks of the attackers.

I will repeat that this only works well if the attacking army is mostly foot troops. If they have a lot of archers (mounted or foot) they may break off to engage your flanking force when you get within their radar, but this can also be circumvented by keeping those enemy archers otherwise occupied by sending a cheap spear unit to stand out in front of the gates as a sacrifice.

The only big choice is whether to go after the enemy's left or right flank. I usually go for their right so I can take out as many troops as possible without harming the commander. From the left you may kill the general too early and they will simply run off

Of course the ballista has to be protected in the field, and as all siege engines they are highly susceptible to cavalry rushes, which makes them much less useful against the Eastern and Mongol type armies. Additionally their range is only slightly better than longbows, so one also has to be careful to try to keep them out of enemy missile range.

Since ballista has a low trajectory they have to be either adjacent to or in front of freindly troops, so one nifty method of protection for a defense is to park the ballista right behind a unit of archers who can plant stakes. After the battle starts, simply move the archers back and the ballista up.

So I humbly submit the ballista as the most versatile all around killing engine in the game and at only 370 florins per unit, the absolute best bang for your man bar-b-que buck.

Cheers

[Blademun]

Awesome post. I will agree that the Ballista is the best artillery for the buck. I still think the very best anti-personell artillery is the serpentine. During extended shootouts, my Serpentines score 100+ kills per unit. Ballistas are great for castle fights tho'. Their dead on accuracy really suprised me. They completely outdid my catapults for kills.

[Shahed]

Excellent post Forward Observer !

[PureFodder]

Sally forth with a couple of Mortars against a full stacked army.
Target whichever unit is in the middle of the formation.
sit back and laugh as they massacre them.