My first go with the Turks

[Odin]

I have been playing MTW/STW for a long long time. I dont not have the ability to upgrade my PC for MTW2 so i am back at MTW XL mod.

After looking through the list of countries (for the 1000th time it seems) i passed over my preferred novgorod faction and the English and realized in the hundreds of hours i have played MTW i never made a go of the Turks.

And so i begin. I will start on early, i have read the guide on the board and found the strategies to be good if your a blitzer. i am not really i prefer the turtling approach until i have my ducks in a row.

All this said a couple of questions mates:

1. Turks seem to have a wide variety of troops, which of these gives the best bang for the florin? i prefer horse missle moble armies but have evolved into a combined arms player for sure.

2. Which direction do i head? its either the Byz or Egypt.

3. Ribat and building specilizations by province, if you have a preference.

So any assistance would be great. i play XL mod on VH.

Thanks,

Odin

[Kavhan Isbul]

Generally, when playing with the Turks I try to produce huge numbers of turcoman horse, ghazi infantry, ottoman infantry as archers (in Rum), Armenian Heavy Cavalry in Armenia and saracen infantry.
It's been some time since I last played the Seljuks in XL, but I would probably go for Armenia initially, as the Armenians have a tendency to attack Rum sooner or later, and this can be painful if it coincides with fighting with the Fatimids and Byzantines. The Fatimids (Egyptians) tend to have poor troops (lots of nubian spearmen, desert archers and camels) and little with which to counter horse archers. I will try to hit them early and establish a one-province border with them at the Sinai before they can start transferring Saharan Cavalry. As for the Byzantines - simply wait for them to be at war with Sicily and the Cumans. If you get to Nicea and your fleet protects your borders, then the only way the Byzantines can invade will force them to fight a bridge battle and then even the katanks are easy to deal with. The Seljuks initial strategy should be to get a nice Empire with only three borders - Egypt, Georgia and Nicea or Constantinople (Nicea is easier to defend). Then they can build up their navy, get all the income from trade and slowly expand in whatever direction they want (North Africa is perhaps the best choice military wise and economic wise) while defeating an occasional Crusade in Nicea or Constantinople (if they ever cross).

[Vladimir]

Build up your fortifications in Georgia. If you're brave (or foolish) enough, take Lesser Kazar and max out the fortress, put your best defensive/anti cavalry troops in it, and wait for 1230.

[Odin]

Build up your fortifications in Georgia. If you're brave (or foolish) enough, take Lesser Kazar and max out the fortress, put your best defensive/anti cavalry troops in it, and wait for 1230.

I've had my fun with the mongols playing the novgorods and the cumans 50 times over. I might go as far as georgia but I suspect that dealing with a crusade or two will be first and foremost, the mongols will have to wait.

[Scurvy]

When i play as turks, i always take loads of horse archers, as they are simply the most fun unit type in the game.... ghazi are okay for campaign but i prefer to use more solid unit types - spears etc., ghazi's have a nasty habit of dying in large numbers even when they're winning... If you do use gahzis make sure you target weakly armoured units first to chain, and try to flank with their pace, also watch out for cav

i would notmally ally with the armenians first (a costly battle early on against multiple princes and a king doesnt sound too fun) and concentrate on dealing with the egyptians, do your rules include the use of agents against other muslim factions?

[Odin]

do your rules include the use of agents against other muslim factions?

My general rule is to honor alliances and not attempt to topple Like minded religious allies. I mean i have used cardinals as catholics and burned every general over 4 stars and invaded but i dont go that way any more.

So generally I will maintain:

1. 3-5 assisins (that are valored up)
2. 10 combo spies/priests
3. 1-2 diplomats
4. One senior religous leader (cardinal)

If your an enemy I bring the full compliment of my army/agents/diplomacy to bare, but as a general rule I do not harm allies, makes my games a little more challenging.

[Odin]

Generally, when playing with the Turks I try to produce huge numbers of turcoman horse, ghazi infantry, ottoman infantry as archers (in Rum), Armenian Heavy Cavalry in Armenia and saracen infantry.
It's been some time since I last played the Seljuks in XL, but I would probably go for Armenia initially, as the Armenians have a tendency to attack Rum sooner or later, and this can be painful if it coincides with fighting with the Fatimids and Byzantines. The Fatimids (Egyptians) tend to have poor troops (lots of nubian spearmen, desert archers and camels) and little with which to counter horse archers. I will try to hit them early and establish a one-province border with them at the Sinai before they can start transferring Saharan Cavalry. As for the Byzantines - simply wait for them to be at war with Sicily and the Cumans. If you get to Nicea and your fleet protects your borders, then the only way the Byzantines can invade will force them to fight a bridge battle and then even the katanks are easy to deal with. The Seljuks initial strategy should be to get a nice Empire with only three borders - Egypt, Georgia and Nicea or Constantinople (Nicea is easier to defend). Then they can build up their navy, get all the income from trade and slowly expand in whatever direction they want (North Africa is perhaps the best choice military wise and economic wise) while defeating an occasional Crusade in Nicea or Constantinople (if they ever cross).

thank you for the tips.

I had just 30 minutes last night so I started a game to see where I was. The Turk starting position is not very attractive at all, those provinces are wastelands that need to be build. That said, the armenians are an obvious first target but thier king is a 5 star general so its not going to be a cake walk considering the starting troops.

Overall it looks like the egyptians are the easy "large" target straight away, but that conflicts with one of my house rules of not attacking same religions unless attacked first.

To start it looks like ghazi infantry are a pretty good value for the bulk of my melee troops, decent stats and with a good general might make it up to very good. There fast but well see how they are in combat tonight.

Anyone else with detailed tips, please post them I do appreciate it.

Odin

[Vladimir]

thank you for the tips.

...the armenians are an obvious first target but thier king is a 5 star general so its not going to be a cake walk considering the starting troops.
Odin

Remember that you outproduce them 2:1. It shouldn't take you more than a turn or two to build the troops you need.

[Odin]

Remember that you outproduce them 2:1. It shouldn't take you more than a turn or two to build the troops you need.

True, when I did my initial observation last night he had one heir 2 spears and a archer unit. I'll pepper them to death with arrows, but the only real flanking cav I have early is my kings unit and he is only a 3star general. Considering the armenian king is a 5 I am hesitant to bring my king to bare in that fashion.

SO I am thinking that an invasion of 2-3 horse archers, 3 Ghazi inf, my king and maybe a bedohin camel unit should be enough to get the job done.

[Peasant Phill]

True, when I did my initial observation last night he had one heir 2 spears and a archer unit. I'll pepper them to death with arrows, but the only real flanking cav I have early is my kings unit and he is only a 3star general. Considering the armenian king is a 5 I am hesitant to bring my king to bare in that fashion.

SO I am thinking that an invasion of 2-3 horse archers, 3 Ghazi inf, my king and maybe a bedohin camel unit should be enough to get the job done.

What are you facing? I'm not realy familiar with the Armenian unit roster but I've used the armanian infantry (as mercs) and there excelent troops in early. They have good melee stats with an AP weapon plus they're armed with bows IIRC.

Arm Inf will outshoot your (T)HA and outmelee them, they will survive a ghazi charge (with many causulties) and killing them with your king will just be to costly if it succeeds at all. I don't know about your camels but their just to big and slow not to be living pincushins.

My advice:
- take more missile units so you can soften them up before engaging.
- take at least 1 unit of spears with you, Ghazis are excellent flankers but die to quickly to be your line inf.
- use your HA to isolate the Armenian king before the melee starts. outflanked ghazis are dead in seconds. Besides a tired general/king is far easier to kill.

[Vladimir]

SO I am thinking that an invasion of 2-3 horse archers, 3 Ghazi inf, my king and maybe a bedohin camel unit should be enough to get the job done.

Overkill. Remember: weapon/counterweapon. And two stars is only one extra valor point. Use a HA unit to lure the general into your Saracen and problem solved. A 3:1 force rule would be nice but don't forget the advantages of hills, forests, etc.