Saddam Dead by Sunday

[AntiochusIII]

This is absolutely sickening that they will be murdering Saddam.

He was not given a trial. He was merely given a farce masquerading as a trial in order to pretend that murdering him via hanging will not be murder.

The soldiers who found him might as well have shot him the head when he came out of the spider hole. At least then the murder of Saddam wouldn't have tried to have been covered up via a totally illegitimate, fake trial.

Totally disgusting that some posts are making a joke out of Saddam's murder.

Nav, you do realize Saddam was a totalitarian who violently and aggressively opposed the cause you seem to favor, those of the Islamists? He was also noticeably lacking in any religious convictions, as well...

Moreover, the trial was not a farce. It was a necessity. Now, personally I don't want anyone to die, not even Saddam, especially since he's already in captivity as is...

Louis: that picture is wicked!

[Dâriûsh]

Saddam is a monster, no doubt about that. He committed heinous crimes against Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis, and for that he should be punished. Even so I am no supporter of the death penalty, not even in his case. Though believe me, I have no pity for that man.

I am concerned however with the trial, and I do think Navaros is right when he calls it a farce. I think that many people outside Iraq want to see Saddam dead. Because then at least one figure of authority will pay for the current mess in Iraq. As if the death of Saddam will appease the insurgents.

But really, is injustice against the unjust justifiable? And if so, why was Iraq invaded at all?

[Pannonian]

Saddam is political poison, but we are praying for someone like him to take over, since that's the best chance we have of leaving an Iraq that satisfies our national interests. A secular ruler guaranteeing stability and a certain degree of social liberalism in Iraq, who is fanatically opposed to Bin Laden and Iran alike - what's not to like?

Personally, I would have popped him out of prison, given him 10 billion dollars and free use of coalition troops inside Iraq, and told him there's another 50 billion in regular installments over the next 10 years if he does a good job of stabilising the place and behaves himself. Simplest and cheapest solution to the problems we're facing over there.

[AntiochusIII]

Saddam is political poison, but we are praying for someone like him to take over, since that's the best chance we have of leaving an Iraq that satisfies our national interests. A secular ruler guaranteeing stability and a certain degree of social liberalism in Iraq, who is fanatically opposed to Bin Laden and Iran alike - what's not to like?

Personally, I would have popped him out of prison, given him 10 billion dollars and free use of coalition troops inside Iraq, and told him there's another 50 billion in regular installments over the next 10 years if he does a good job of stabilising the place and behaves himself. Simplest and cheapest solution to the problems we're facing over there.

You know that'd be something America would never be able to do, of course.

It means they've just stormed in, took him out, waste billions (and thousands of lives), then put him back in. No politicians responsible for this would ever survive the storm unleashed upon him at home.

[Sjakihata]

The civilized crowd of the backroom sickens me. To read that people are enjoying even jubilating another individuals death makes me wonder how far our supposed western liberal-deomocratic tradition have actually come?

I will ask the mods to make sure that no triumphing is done (it has been illegal before here to do that) and I see no difference in this thread.


On punishments. You punish someone for a crime he has done, in order to return to the harmony or balance there once were between the perpetrator and the community. When he is punished that balance is once again restored and thus the actions of the criminal have been paid for or in other word has been justified and his actions forgiven. I do not see how mass-murderers and evil tyrants can ever be forgiven their actions and thus a punishment cannot be given. This is the problem Hannah Arendt raises in the book Eichmann in Jerusalem. Makes you think, no?

[AntiochusIII]

On punishments. You punish someone for a crime he has done, in order to return to the harmony or balance there once were between the perpetrator and the community. When he is punished that balance is once again restored and thus the actions of the criminal have been paid for or in other word has been justified and his actions forgiven. I do not see how mass-murderers and evil tyrants can ever be forgiven their actions and thus a punishment cannot be given. This is the problem Hannah Arendt raises in the book Eichmann in Jerusalem. Makes you think, no?

Your premise of what punishment is, I'm sure, is a position some would contest, thus rendering the conclusion in dispute.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I will ask the mods to make sure that no triumphing is done (it has been illegal before here to do that) and I see no difference in this thread.

I'm keeping an eye on it.

Celebrating the death of any individual is not a good thing, but as one who is implacably opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances, I have to recognise that Saddam's career is likely to provoke strong feelings of vengeance.

People understandably rejoice when justice is done unto evil men, however flawed the judicial process.

However, any continuance of the speculation about a lingering death or additional tortures will be frowned upon.

[BigTex]

The civilized crowd of the backroom sickens me. To read that people are enjoying even jubilating another individuals death makes me wonder how far our supposed western liberal-deomocratic tradition have actually come?

I will ask the mods to make sure that no triumphing is done (it has been illegal before here to do that) and I see no difference in this thread.


On punishments. You punish someone for a crime he has done, in order to return to the harmony or balance there once were between the perpetrator and the community. When he is punished that balance is once again restored and thus the actions of the criminal have been paid for or in other word has been justified and his actions forgiven. I do not see how mass-murderers and evil tyrants can ever be forgiven their actions and thus a punishment cannot be given. This is the problem Hannah Arendt raises in the book Eichmann in Jerusalem. Makes you think, no?

Sarcasm aside, it is a joyess event when a wicked and despicable man is removed from society. He murdered thousands indiscriminately, torchered untold numbers of innocent. Western democracy has come far from what it was by just doing this. Western Democracy has removed a tyrant, instead of proping one up and giving them candy if their nice, we have removed him and he has recieved punishment for his actions against his countrymen. This in it self is an event worthy of praise and jubilation.

You bring up a good point on punishment. For mass murderes they can never be forgiven. As no punishment is enough, as nothing will be equivilent to their actions. The only suitable action is to remove from them what they have removed from countless others.

When the slack in that rope is gone and Saddam swings it will definately be a joyess event for those who have lost family members, for those that have been torchered by his secrety police. When Saddam swings, Iraqi courts will have proven themselves strong enough to try even a totalitarian dictator fairly. When Saddam swings it will go along way to making Iraq a more stable country.

The Coliseum of Rome will definately be a beautiful site this New Years eve.

[Kagemusha]

Killing will not end killing.But i wont miss him.

[BigTex]

Killing will not end killing.But i wont miss him.

Just like imprisoning criminals doesnt stop theives. Executions serve as a deterent, a public statement of what happens if your caught.

By the way, Louis those print out quite nicely.

[Reenk Roink]

The civilized crowd of the backroom sickens me. To read that people are enjoying even jubilating another individuals death makes me wonder how far our supposed western liberal-deomocratic tradition have actually come?

I will ask the mods to make sure that no triumphing is done (it has been illegal before here to do that) and I see no difference in this thread.

On punishments. You punish someone for a crime he has done, in order to return to the harmony or balance there once were between the perpetrator and the community. When he is punished that balance is once again restored and thus the actions of the criminal have been paid for or in other word has been justified and his actions forgiven. I do not see how mass-murderers and evil tyrants can ever be forgiven their actions and thus a punishment cannot be given. This is the problem Hannah Arendt raises in the book Eichmann in Jerusalem. Makes you think, no?

Sjakihata. I agree that the glee that some are portraying is weird, but I don't think it is "sickening" (just a natural emotional reaction that some do not suppress).

On the issue of punishment, you hold that punishment is used "in order to return to the harmony..." Others (like me) hold that punishment also serves a retribution function, and thus Saddam's execution is completely justifiable.

Navaros: Saddam was a secularist who used to put down religion by force when he deemed it necessary.

[Sjakihata]

Saddam Hussein may be hanged within hours, senior Iraqi officials and the ousted president's defence team said on Friday.

One senior Iraqi source told Reuters key legal issues had been resolved and he could go to the gallows shortly. Another official said Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was meeting key figures, including the Justice Minister, to agree the details.

Article

[Lemur]

Just to make things confusing:

US officials have denied reports that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been transferred to Iraqi custody, as speculation mounts about his execution.

Saddam Hussein's lawyers earlier said they had been notified of his handover ... "There has been no change in his (Saddam Hussein's) status," US State Department spokesman Tom Casey said late on Friday.

[Pannonian]

You know that'd be something America would never be able to do, of course.

It means they've just stormed in, took him out, waste billions (and thousands of lives), then put him back in. No politicians responsible for this would ever survive the storm unleashed upon him at home.

That's why the whole enterprise should have been under British control from the start. We've never been averse to u-turns and doublethink. Jomo Kenyatta, the loathsome Mau-Mau terrorist whom we condemned to years of hard labour, was the same Jomo Kenyatta who became the enlightened 1st president of Kenya, who maintained close links with the British after independence. Perfidious and hypocritical Albion we may be, but we know how to get results.

"I like the English - in England. The Whites must go. Africa is for the Africans."
- Jomo Kenyatta