Results 1 to 30 of 38

Thread: Just making sure what im reading is right...

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Just making sure what im reading is right...

    I was reading this book "The everlasting hatred ; roots of jihad"

    Anyway, the author describes where Muhammed's followers in Medina fought off the 10,000 strong force with a trench, which was sopposedly innovative at the time (if this is true, then military tacticians in Arabia were idiots at the time). Anyway, Muhammed formed a 10-year peace treaty with Mecca.

    "By Ad 630. Less than a year later, Muhammed had built up his army. He stormed meccaby suprise and conquered it, thus making himself ruler of the city of his birth.

    ....

    Muslims have quoted the "Quraysh Model" as justification for many deceptive treaties. It means, "Negotiate 'peace' with your enemy until you become strong enough to annihilate him" "

    But it goes on... "Mohammad and his disciples treated the jews more severely than any other "ubeleivers". Why? "They had irratated him by their refusal to recongize him as a prophet, by ridicule, and by argument" Explains Guillaume. "And of course their economic supremacy was a standing irratant". Guillaume continues, "Their leaders opposed his claim to be an apostle sent by god, and though they doubtless drew some satisfaction from his acceptance of the divine mission of abaraham,moses and the prophets, they could hardly be expected to welcome to inclusion of jesus among his chosen messagers" Mohammad decided these non-beleivers, these skeptics of his homeland,had to be eliminated if he was going to fulfill his imperial ambitions. So he orderd and islamic law :"Two religions may not dwell together on the arabian peninsula".

    Going on.... "After issuing this decree, mohammad wasted no time in eforcing it. He went after the jewish communites of northern arabia, systematically slaughtereing them all. First the quraiza tribe was exterminated. Then mohammand sent messagers to the jewish community at the oasis of Khaibar "inviting" Usayr, their war cheif, to visit medina for peace negotiations.

    Usayr set off with 30 companions and a muslim escort, " writes historian Norman Stillman "Suspecting no foul play, the jews went unarmed. On the way the muslims turned upon the defenseless delagation, killing all but one who managed to escape" Mohammed attacked and destroeyd their entire community.

    Mohommed justified this treachers saying "War is deception" "

    And it goes on and on. The point is, is what the author say is true? It blows my mind how 1.3 billion people can worship a man, who completely disregarded a peace treaty and a invatation for peace negotitions, backstabbing them both. A man who breaks his honor like this, is worthless crap in my eyes, not worthy of any praise. No honor = Scum

    I just wanted to make sure that this is true, iv never read the koran, not sure. The author is a pious christrian who obviosly views Islam as false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

  2. #2
    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    noyb
    Posts
    1,009

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    I can tell you the answers that you seek are not in the Qur'aan, as this book does not chronicle the life of Mohammed (s.a.3.w.s.), but rather is a collection of what are considered to be his "revelations". As to the veracity of this author's claims, I am skeptical, as I have not heard this argument before elsewhere.

    I do know that Mohammed (s.a.3.w.s) took revenge on certain Jewish tribes because they initially allied themselves with him, only to betray him and join the Meccan coalition. At least this is the way it is normally told.

    As far as attacking Mecca, it is worth saying, for balance, that the conquest of that city is normally held up as an example of Mohammed's (s.a.3.w.s) mercy, because he did not slaughter the populace and burn it to the ground.

    I know there are references available on the internet, perhaps you could check some of those.

  3. #3
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    I can tell you the answers that you seek are not in the Qur'aan, as this book does not chronicle the life of Mohammed (s.a.3.w.s.), but rather is a collection of what are considered to be his "revelations". As to the veracity of this author's claims, I am skeptical, as I have not heard this argument before elsewhere.

    I do know that Mohammed (s.a.3.w.s) took revenge on certain Jewish tribes because they initially allied themselves with him, only to betray him and join the Meccan coalition. At least this is the way it is normally told.

    As far as attacking Mecca, it is worth saying, for balance, that the conquest of that city is normally held up as an example of Mohammed's (s.a.3.w.s) mercy, because he did not slaughter the populace and burn it to the ground.

    I know there are references available on the internet, perhaps you could check some of those.

    I have no clue where to start researching something like this.

    The author usually describes muslims in a very very bad way. But im confused, if he spared mecca and was called merciful, but slaughtered numerous jewish tribes. How can he be called merciful?
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

  4. #4
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    Everytime his people started to doubt he was the prophet or get restless, he would fire up a campaign against jews, kill and loot their treasure, and placate the folks with riches and comfort.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  5. #5
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    I just noticed, this belongs in a diffrent thread section.




    "I dont think your a prophet muhammed....."

    "Whats that? What are you saying to me god? Go steal some jew gold? Of course we will!"

    "Praise allah"
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

  6. #6
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,489

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    Quote Originally Posted by holybandit
    "I dont think your a prophet muhammed....."

    "Whats that? What are you saying to me god? Go steal some jew gold? Of course we will!"

    "Praise allah"
    It worked brilliantly

  7. #7
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,978

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    The author is quite interesting. Perhaps he can explain jihad in the context of his endtime theories.

    Question: do religious fundies really have a mainstream audience on the west side of the pond?

  8. #8
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ratae Corieltauvorum
    Posts
    2,481

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    Mr Lindsey sounds like a total fruitbat with an agenda to fulfill, IMHO, and a serial failed prophet to boot. Not much of a platform to go dissing other prophets from....

    I would take anything you read in that book with a pillar of salt.
    ANCIENT: TW

    A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)

    Discussion forum thread

    Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4

  9. #9
    Member Member Spetulhu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    818

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    I wouldn't be surprised if the youngest Abrahamic tradition had something of a turbulent start. It isn't alone with this. The Jews were given ten commandments, but slaughtering everyone in the holy land and taking their stuff was obviously not against these. Jesus said to love your neighbor and in the next breath he tells you all non-christians should be regarded as enemies.
    If you're fighting fair you've made a miscalculation.

  10. #10
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,978

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spetulhu
    I wouldn't be surprised if the youngest Abrahamic tradition had something of a turbulent start. It isn't alone with this. The Jews were given ten commandments, but slaughtering everyone in the holy land and taking their stuff was obviously not against these. Jesus said to love your neighbor and in the next breath he tells you all non-christians should be regarded as enemies.
    Whatever the start the Muslims had, they were regarded as non-threatening enough for the Jerusalemite Jews to help them take the city, and for Jews in Muslim-held territories to remain loyal for the next 1300 years, preferring them to any other rulers. Certainly anti-semitism is a primarily European and specifically Christian tradition, using the excuse of blood guilt to periodically squeeze and even eradicate the Jews in their midst (eg. Edward Longshanks). Christianity has a long and dishonourable history of maltreating Jews.

  11. #11
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Lierbyen, Norway
    Posts
    443

    Default Re: Just making sure what im reading is right...

    As for slaughtering the jewish clans systematically I've read something a bit different, which was more along the lines of: After they dismissed him and ridiculed him he fought them and all the male members (warriors) of one clan were killed while the others who foughth him were exiled.
    PS: Not a direct quote, just roughly what I recall reading.
    Anyway I share the views of many that what this books says should not be taken seriously as he's just trying to inspire hatred against muslims, the very same thing he's blaming Mohammed for doing against the jews.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO