It's... it's... beautiful :O

[caravel]

Game graphics are like bikinis - it's not about what you show, it's about what you leave to the imagination.

At the point games are now the developers had better draw everything as I want it otherwise it spoils the realism. I don't want 100 identical, clean shaven peasants in amazing detail I want every peasant individually dressed and equiped quite uniquely. I demand different facial hair, eye colour, height and build. If you can't do that then leave it to my imagination and the game will be much more realistic.

Well exactly, you've pretty much summed it up. When I'm playing MTW or STW my imagination kind of fills in the blanks. I don't need to see startling realism. I'm not about to go and complain at the .com because the grass was blowing in the wrong direction or the 3D sweat beads were the wrong colour, or the horses mess didn't have realistic enough steam evapourating from it properly befitting a battle fought in Denmark on a thursday afternoon after tea. Also I don't get "hung up" about the minor historical details such as lances being held 2 degress too high, or the wrong breed of horse being used etc etc etc ad nauseum. If there's fairly realistic representation then it's ok with me.

That was well-said, Caravel; I especially agree with the birds possessing an origami-like quality. (I wonder if that was deliberate on CA's part, or if it just happened to work out that way?) It's the little details like that that really help bring a game to life.

It may not have been intentional but it is a piece of brilliance. I can start a battle in STW look at the grey sky and weathered landscape and see those birds fluttering around and here the crash of a storm and it seems ominous, a voice in my head says "this is it". It feels like a battle is about to occur and that it's going to be life and death. If I just leave it there paused the soothing and peaceful music then sends my wife off to sleep! What more do people want?? This is a computer game we're talking about here, yet it has qualities that one would find in an artform.

I personally feel MTW still has a lot of atmosphere (particularly in the battles), but you're right in that Shogun is definitely superior in this area. In fact, I would go so far as to say that--at least for me--no other game has as much atmosphere & ambience as STW. I experience an immersion like no other title I've ever played.

In MTW only the desert battles have atmosphere for me.