Pontic eb 08

[Goatus_Boyus]

Playing Pontic with eb 08,been great so far,few questions,I have upgrade my baracks,but don't seem to be getting any new troops,(In heartland citys) do pontic get reforms?if so when and how many?..also I can't bulid paved roads,where I coud in the first eb with Pontic,
GB

[Numahr]

- As it has been stated in other posts, Pontus still lacks its higher-end units. You will have to wait for later builds to get better troops.

- The lack of paved roads has been mentionned earlier but did not get any official answer AFAIK. Did Pontus actually build paved roads IRL? Or if not, is it plausible to consider that Pontus would have had the possibility to build some anyway? (good old question: what could the factions have done in a "plausible" way...)

[Barnabas]

I'm looking at Strabo to see if he tells us anything about roads in Pontus (since Strabo was from that region) even though he was born two centuries after the start of the game. The most notable thing I've found so far is a quote on him stating that a section of Arabia LACKED quality roads, though clearly he was under Roman authority by this time, so could have been used to roads due to Roman exposure.

His most arresting sentence touches the motives that enticed the Romans across the Red Sea to their doom. Aelius Gallus was, by order of the Emperor Augustus, in quest of the wealth of Arabia Felix—the spices and gems and pre cious metals of the lush kingdom at the southern end of the Arabian Peninsula. What kind of reception he would receive, the Prefect did not know when he set out, so he came prepared for anything. "He intended," says Strabo, "to make opulent friends, or to conquer opulent enemies."

Aelius Gallus did neither. His Greek friend, anxious to absolve him of the blame, attributes the fiasco to the treachery of a guide, "who exposed the Romans to danger by leading them where there was no road, or where the road was impracticable for an army, or where they were compelled to make long detours over terrain destitute of food or water."

From what I've read, he reports distances on roads frequently, but has yet to say much in the way of the quality of the roads...

I would argue for a basic paved road capability. The Greeks had roads that were paved, and as you all know, the Pontus Euxenes was studded with Greek colonies around this time period. However, this is just an argument and far from conclusive. As can be seen below, Tomis renamed later to constantina, did not have paved roads until well after Roman occupation.

Tomis was founded 2500 years ago, as part of the Greek colonisation of Pontus Euxinus (the Black Sea), was founded Tomis. Tomis sees great prosperity due to the commercial exchange between Greek colonists and the native Gaeto-Dacians.

From the 3rd century BC, the city developed rapidly in all areas of civilisation. Thus, around 300 BC, the Tomis settlement was the battlefield of wars between Lysimachus, the Macedonian king, and Dromichaetes, the Gaeto-Dacian king of the Danubian plain.

Then, under the Roman domination, set up around 29 BC, Tomis made substantial progress. The history of the first years of our era was marked by the presence of Publius Ovidius Naso, a Roman poet exiled at Tomis between 9 - 17 AC, at Octavius Augustus's orders.

During the 2nd century, Tomis became the residential city of the province, being called the biggest metropolis of entire Pontus Euxinus (Black Sea). In the middle of the 3rd century and the beginning of the 4th century considerable efforts were made in order to restore the town. It was then when remarkable monuments were built: the Roman building with the mosaic, thermae, residential districts with paved streets, portals and sewers, underground galleries, etc. The precinct wall was built in the same period and was subsequently restored several times, the last time in the 6th century AC.

A final quote to mudy the waters :

I propose that we should enjoin on the cities along the seaboard the duty of constructing and putting in order the roads, which we hear are impassable. They will be only too glad to obey, no doubt, out of mere terror and their desire to be rid of us."

This last proposal was met by loud cries and protestations against the idea of going by land at all. So, perceiving their infatuation, he did not put the question to the vote, but eventually persuaded the cities voluntarily to construct roads by the suggestion, "If you get your roads in good order, we shall all the sooner be gone." They further got a fifty-oared galley from the Trapezuntines, and gave the command of it to Dexippus, a Laconian, one of the perioeci[1]. This man altogether neglected to collect vessels on the offing, but slunk off himself, and vanished, ship and all, out of Pontus.

This was from The Anabasis by Xenophon of Athens in book V part I, concerning the march of some Greeks to aid Cyrus against Artaxerses. The question remains what constituted "putting roads to order"

Again, I'd say they certainly could've built paved roads in certain places and probably did have them in isolated instances, but from all I can tell, paved roads were not widespread in this region until the Roman occupation.

[Tuuvi]

Well I think if they could have built paved roads, then they should be given the ability in the game, even if they didn't historically.

[Fondor_Yards]

Build local MIC's as pontus, that were all their good units come from. Chalkaspidai, classic hoplites/other greeks, all galatians/celts, the only real nice unit you get from your MIC's are kappadocian cavalry and the pantodapoi pikemen, which you only need a lvl 2 or 3 for.

[HFox]

Finding Pontus interesting to play because of this lack of upper end unts. You have to mix and match well and focus more on economy and gold to fund mercenary army's. Not sure how historical this is.

As to roads....I always assumed not, except fairly localised to cities due to firstly historical notes noting the reliance on the sea to move anything. Secondly the histories of Alexanders conquest and the difficulties of movement/supply he encountered. If the persians didnt build them at the hieght of their power...would the greeks find it any easier?

Is there a half way house maybe in terms of roads, a not fully paved version that doesnt help movement but improves trade maybe?

Also in terms of Pontus....I havent noticed any references to the silk road.....doesnt this pass through the peninsular?

[Barnabas]

Finding Pontus interesting to play because of this lack of upper end unts. You have to mix and match well and focus more on economy and gold to fund mercenary army's. Not sure how historical this is.

As to roads....I always assumed not, except fairly localised to cities due to firstly historical notes noting the reliance on the sea to move anything. Secondly the histories of Alexanders conquest and the difficulties of movement/supply he encountered. If the persians didnt build them at the hieght of their power...would the greeks find it any easier?

Is there a half way house maybe in terms of roads, a not fully paved version that doesnt help movement but improves trade maybe?

Also in terms of Pontus....I havent noticed any references to the silk road.....doesnt this pass through the peninsular?

There are several trade roads that pass through southern cities in Asia minor. Of course all are in enemy hands at the start of the game. It would be great though if Pontus could build a road that is in between the basic dirt roads and the paved roads. I completely agree that they did not have paved roads except on short strecthes near and in major cities, but surely there could at least be the capability of some kind of in-between road.

As to the lack of upper end units, it actually is fun at the middle of the game, but becomes quite a chore when you are forced to either keep "refilling" your few lower-end units that have silver or gold chevrons continuously, and are reliant on mercenaries which you cannot refill (most of the time). I've taken most of Greece over via cavalry mercenaries and troops garnered from Ancyra (the Gestatae are AWESOME-- maybe a bit too awesome!), but to the east against the Ptolemies and the Seleucids, I've defenitely found my low-end (upgraded) troops to be sorely lacking against the awesome troops of Seleucia and the Ptolemies.

Pontus should (and later will, from what I hear) have upper-end units, but historically, Pontus in its prime was a conglomerate of people-groups constisting of Galatians, Kappadocians, and Black-Sea Greeks, as well as some "Easterners" to a certain extent.

The only lower-end unit that is worth much from Pontos is are the Pantodapoe Phalengetai (sp?) if they are properly supported, and the kappadocian meduim cavalry (though they have to be retrained fairly often). Outside of that, troops from Ancyra are probably your best bet, though the mounted archers and persian archers of the East are excellent. The persians seem to be better than Cretian archers.

All in all, yea, Pontus is very challenging in the late game, especially if you didn't expand rapidly at the start.

[olly]

Just curious, does anyone know if the higher end units will turn up in 0.81 or will it be a later patch?

Their campaign is fun (but I do wish they would stop declaring war everytime that a greek city gets attacked because its getting me in trouble) but I've only done 10 years and will leave it if the faction is going to be more complete soon.

[Moros]

A later patch, I believe.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Best single piece of advice for someone trying to play as Pontos: Don't accept the Ptolemaioi offer of a ceasefire. It's tempting, but you are at war with them and an ally of the Seleucids. It will cause the Seleucids (who are at war with them) to get angry and you can count on them attacking you within a couple of years after that. Use that time to build up your cities instead of going to war and losing pretty quickly. Anyway you wouldn't get any trade with them for a while (Ptolemies) since you aren't close enough.