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Thread: Moral penalty when general dies
It is way too much no? You loose the battle you are winning when he dies. Yes Generals dead is never favourable in TW, but its effect is a bit too exaggerated now in M2TW.
I guess.
I guess.
Well if you were being led by an awesome General, and he got killed somehow, you'd feel sorry, wouldn't ya?
What I am saying is that it is sort of realistic, but the morale penalty should be equal to the Generals command stars. If the command stars are really high then they lose BIG TIME morale, if it is low, not really lost...
it is fine for me.. it places more caution on when and how to use the general unit.. waste one unit slot for an idling general, or help out in the battle? When and how is the question.
From another angle, credit should go for the one who target the general and killing him, thereby turning a seemingly hopeless battle into victory.. history has many of such.
From another angle, credit should go for the one who target the general and killing him, thereby turning a seemingly hopeless battle into victory.. history has many of such.
Originally Posted by Wolf_Kyolic:
It is way too much no? You loose the battle you are winning when he dies. Yes Generals dead is never favourable in TW, but its effect is a bit too exaggerated now in M2TW.
I guess.
Yes, sometimes the impact is too much. But there are different difficult levels. Maybe it depends on that level?It is way too much no? You loose the battle you are winning when he dies. Yes Generals dead is never favourable in TW, but its effect is a bit too exaggerated now in M2TW.
I guess.
I really haven't notice it though. I killed people's generals in games, only to have them beat me (barley). Other Day, I use a Mongol Army that Magyar Khan used against me, and I fought a IPL member, and I barley beat him. We both had 15-30 guys left,and I killed his General and his's men routed soon after..
Warman you lose anyway, with or without gen 
@topic I think its fine, it makes the units with "good morale" more effective. It has a bad influence on peasent-archers or milita units but id say thats the point of it.
@topic I think its fine, it makes the units with "good morale" more effective. It has a bad influence on peasent-archers or milita units but id say thats the point of it.
Originally Posted by Warluster:
What I am saying is that it is sort of realistic, but the morale penalty should be equal to the Generals command stars. If the command stars are really high then they lose BIG TIME morale, if it is low, not really lost...
We're talking about multiplayer so general's don't have command stars What I am saying is that it is sort of realistic, but the morale penalty should be equal to the Generals command stars. If the command stars are really high then they lose BIG TIME morale, if it is low, not really lost...
Don't Bring your Chating Rants against me here Deni, or you going on my block list with the other 3 people I stuck on there..
You guys are noobs. If you just make sure your general dies at the very beginning, you don't have to worry about such things later on! :) My general has a very large head, which is easy to shoot. Also, it doesn't help that his family crest was a bullseye.
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888:
Don't Bring your Chating Rants against me here Deni, or you going on my block list with the other 3 people I stuck on there..
For the 50th time you can't have a block list on a freakin forum Don't Bring your Chating Rants against me here Deni, or you going on my block list with the other 3 people I stuck on there..
He probably means the "Ignore" function... 
I think penalty for dead general isn't as abd as Kyolic said. For about 30 seconds penalty is quite bad, but later it's smaller.
agreed. kill them from the start like elmo said. sure, it'll give you a morale penalty in the battle, but it won't be as bad as losing him at a worse time.
Originally Posted by Monarch:
For the 50th time you can't have a block list on a freakin forum
For the 50th time you can't have a block list on a freakin forum
Ever Hear of the Igonre opition?
and 3 more names to my block list
Where do we sign up, Warman? :D jk, jk....
Haven't noticed it being so dramatic, Kyolic... but them maybe I'm daft....
Haven't noticed it being so dramatic, Kyolic... but them maybe I'm daft....
I usually make him an HA so he can just run around and escape danger if needed.
I have seen times when my gen dies and nothing happens, but I was playing Shields yesterday and he was beating me, and then out of nowhere his gen died and his army chain routed. Every unit. Was good for me but a pain for him :D
I have seen times when my gen dies and nothing happens, but I was playing Shields yesterday and he was beating me, and then out of nowhere his gen died and his army chain routed. Every unit. Was good for me but a pain for him :D
Originally Posted by RTKMercurius:
Where do we sign up, Warman? :D jk, jk....
Haven't noticed it being so dramatic, Kyolic... but them maybe I'm daft....
Where do we sign up, Warman? :D jk, jk....
Haven't noticed it being so dramatic, Kyolic... but them maybe I'm daft....
you cool,so no need to sign up
I played against Hannbial from BK and Acunal from CROM, and I killed their gens, but I ended up losing since the morale isn't that strong IMO anyhow..
I have never noticed the gen dieing being a problem for me.
I believe a large factor in this is the state of your troops. If they are fresh they arent going ot mind losing a general to much but the tired/exhusted moral penalties will piggyback with that of losing a general to cause a chain.
My suggestion is just be careful with him. Dont put him somewhere he will die easliy if any of your troops are wavering or shaken. (duh)
My suggestion is just be careful with him. Dont put him somewhere he will die easliy if any of your troops are wavering or shaken. (duh)
A generals death will never make you lose if ur winning at medium diff Probably not even at Very hard diff. You are probably losing/evenly matched when ur gen dies for it to cause you to lose.
I think the reaction to a generals death is fine... i always use a general bodyguard nowadays anyway. Difference between these bodyguards and ones from bi/rome for example though is that there is a chance the general will die first out of the whole unit?! that really never happened until mtw2 for me...
I would charge the flank and BOOM a 21 man unit bodyguard goes down to 19 and the general was one of the casualties...
I would charge the flank and BOOM a 21 man unit bodyguard goes down to 19 and the general was one of the casualties...
Good morale troops like DCK will fight on even if your gen dies. So if your troops routed then either your troops had some other morale penalties or you had non-elite (like militia) troops. (or both 
)
)To what extent should a generals death effect a different level of troop though?
With his death should all militia troops be wavering/routing instantly?
Should better/more experienced units such as DCK be able to hold with no immediate effects, and for how long...
With his death should all militia troops be wavering/routing instantly?
Should better/more experienced units such as DCK be able to hold with no immediate effects, and for how long...
Militia should break - it's that simple...
Originally Posted by sapi:
Militia should break - it's that simple...
A Gens death should never auto rout any unit automatically. Militia should break - it's that simple...
What if a full strength fresh militia unit is fighting an understrength fatigued unit of a similar type? to have it rout while winning is totally out of balance and unrealistic.
The morale penalty for a gens death should always be linked to other factor aswell.
KenchiNem
Originally Posted by }{Huscarls}{Barrett|L|:
I think the reaction to a generals death is fine... i always use a general bodyguard nowadays anyway. Difference between these bodyguards and ones from bi/rome for example though is that there is a chance the general will die first out of the whole unit?! that really never happened until mtw2 for me...
I would charge the flank and BOOM a 21 man unit bodyguard goes down to 19 and the general was one of the casualties...
it's cuase his model is the Front/Left Most person. they should put hte gen like directly in the middle in the 2nd or third rank.I think the reaction to a generals death is fine... i always use a general bodyguard nowadays anyway. Difference between these bodyguards and ones from bi/rome for example though is that there is a chance the general will die first out of the whole unit?! that really never happened until mtw2 for me...
I would charge the flank and BOOM a 21 man unit bodyguard goes down to 19 and the general was one of the casualties...
Why to be worried about your general's death at all? If your first thought is that you have lost befor the match even started, why to bother if general is going to die anyway? In your mind You have already decided that you are going to lose.
Lao Tze (Tao Te Ching), Sun Tzu (Art of War) and many others. Many are familiar with this books or have even memorized all their quotes and statements, but there are few who ''understand'' them.
I agree that general's deat causing your army to rout is out of balance and unrealistic and on the other hand we should not negelect that there are other important issues and if they are fixed they will bring a lot more realism into the game.
Lao Tze (Tao Te Ching), Sun Tzu (Art of War) and many others. Many are familiar with this books or have even memorized all their quotes and statements, but there are few who ''understand'' them.
I agree that general's deat causing your army to rout is out of balance and unrealistic and on the other hand we should not negelect that there are other important issues and if they are fixed they will bring a lot more realism into the game.
Originally Posted by Aonar:
Lao Tze (Tao Te Ching), Sun Tzu (Art of War) and many others. Many are familiar with this books or have even memorized all their quotes and statements, but there are few who ''understand'' them.
What? Sun Tzu's book discusses strategy, not tactics. The Art of War has absolutely no relevance to the moral penalty of a Gen. You should re-read the last part of your quote as you are not one of the few.Lao Tze (Tao Te Ching), Sun Tzu (Art of War) and many others. Many are familiar with this books or have even memorized all their quotes and statements, but there are few who ''understand'' them.
The few who understand the where people like Hannibal, Nelson, Julius Caesar etc, not the likes of us.
Originally Posted by YellowMelon:
I was playing Shields yesterday and he was beating me, and then out of nowhere his gen died and his army chain routed. Every unit. Was good for me but a pain for him :D
I was playing Shields yesterday and he was beating me, and then out of nowhere his gen died and his army chain routed. Every unit. Was good for me but a pain for him :D
That's what I mean. Happens too much in mtw2.
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