EU has new members

[edyzmedieval]

Romania and Bulgaria. Dust off the welcomes, I'm already overfilled with these things. I went in the Revolution Plaza in Bucharest, to enter the New Year with champagne and many people. And also, the high ranking EU officials.

I want to ask our european members, their opinion about the EU.
For me, it doesn't look like something extremely "happy" to cheer about it. I mean, what is it actually? To me, just a more complex economic alliance. Nothing more.

Just wanting to share some opinions on this.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Thats two targets for Greece down the tube

[Bar Kochba]

They can still get turkey

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Hope they don't get into the EU :p

[Bar Kochba]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=118517

He saying maybe israel should join the EU there not even in Europe

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Morocco wasn't allowed into the EU because they weren't in Europe, I doubt they would allow Israel in.

[Kralizec]

It has its flaws, but generally speaking it's underapreciated.

[Bar Kochba]

What does the EU do besides make taxes?

[Rodion Romanovich]

I want to ask our european members, their opinion about the EU.
For me, it doesn't look like something extremely "happy" to cheer about it. I mean, what is it actually?

The EU is an organization that forces you to pay taxes so rich elite politicians can toast in Champagne on a cruise to the Pacific where they discuss how to solve poverty, the length of bananas, and other important things.

[Sjakihata]

Also be aware that it is now officially illegal to toss dwarves. That is a directive (or regulation) that the commission has forced on its members... bah!

[Louis VI the Fat]

About Romania and Bulgaria: there are too many new members who are too underdeveloped and have joined too soon.
Nonetheless: welcome and here's to a fruitful partnership.

Also be aware that it is now officially illegal to toss dwarves. That is a directive (or regulation) that the commission has forced on its members... bah!

Well so much for your favourite pasttime then, hey?

No, wait. Being a sensible and intelligent poster you probably have never tossed a dwarf and are quite repulsed by the idea. Really, I don't see the problem, Sjakihata.

I can't help but think that the decision to accept them into the EU was motivated more by strategic reasons than any other.

There is an interesting pattern to the expansion of the EU and the expansion has a special accent on the former Soviet block of countries ... the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary, now Romania and Bulgaria ... even aiming at Turkey. Who wants to bet that the EU will be aiming at Ukraine and Belorussia next?

This is so not a relevant description of the expansion. Or shall I just be frank and call it conspiracist rubbish? There is no secret masterplan to sneakily encroach on anybodies sphere of influence. That's the Russian/Tsarist/Communist/Putinist way of seeing the world.

The EU isn't 'aiming' at countries it would like to pry away from Russia. There has on the contrary always been a quite open invitation to all European countries to join according to their own free, democratic will. Pannonian already pointed out the apparantly not so devastatingly obvious: to the west, south and north there is only sea. By 1989, the whole of democratic Europe was a member of the EU, with the exception of neutral Switzerland and Kuwait Norway. Which means only countries from the east were eligable for membership after 1989. [Pedantry]: after 1986 to be precise, as that was when the last west European countries joined[/pedantry]

About Turkey joining the EU. It won't happen in the first 10 years if it ever will happen. Turkey isn't adopting fast enough and on certain matters not at all. If a country doesn't acknowledge a country that is part of the EU and is even boycotting it, that country doesn't deserve to join. If it was up to me I would freeze the negotiations for at least 5 years just to get the message across but then again I'm no diplomat.

More than anything else I wish we'd make up our mind about Turkey. Either we want them in or not. These 'negotiations' have been dragging on for over forty years now. Mostly it's just staling for time because nobody has the guts to either allow Turkey in or give it a clear no.

I dont' want them in. I want a decent set of treaties installed for an equal partnership, with close economic and military ties. If the majority do want them in, then fine too. But then present Turkey with a clear and definitive list of standards, with a clear prospect of membership after meeting them.
But for God's sake stop with these endless bogus negotiations that only serve to avoid any decision, and which - completely justifiably - exasparates and antagonises Turkey.

are there alot of nationlist greeks out there?

In Greece? Nah. No more than - oh, let's say - some ten million.

[BigTex]

The EU in it's current state is doomed to fail. The simple fact that there is this debate about new members and it's become so heated is proof enough why. Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

Good luck to the new countries on their venture.

[Mooks]

Can the EU effectively enforce its policies on a military level? I doubt it.

And Greece would totally pwn turkey. Their horse-archers arent that great now with the invention of long range guns.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

Ah, but the two are not exclusive. They work at a different level. There's room for a European identity because it is supranational, just like there is room for a regional identity next to a national one because it is subnational.

More than that, not even national identities are necessarily exclusive- it's perfectly possible to be both Italian and French. People can have a multitude of identities.

With the return of regionalism, the slow rise of a European identity, immigration and inter-national breeding, a mixture of identities is in fact becoming the norm.

[edyzmedieval]

About Romania and Bulgaria: there are too many new members who are too underdeveloped and have joined too soon.
Nonetheless: welcome and here's to a fruitful partnership.

Thank you Louis.

[KrooK]

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

Peasant earnt big money soon after accession - when Germans saw how cheap is food here, they started buying everything that can be eat.

Cars are much cheaper now - because Poles are buying 2nd hand cars into Germany. Furthermore car stealing is lowering - 50% into 3 years. People prefer buy legally imported car than stolen one.

Poles are not blind US supporters like they were about 5 years ago and they are slowly starting to understand European point of view.

[Pannonian]

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

[cegorach]

Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

Not really. I can assume that about 90 % of those people are abroad only temporary. In general they work abroad and come back with earned money.

There are some sectors of economy which suffer from lack of workers now, but it was hard to avoid anyway - building industry requires more people than before everywhere - in the entire EU so it wasn't strange that they are the majority of the Poles working abroad.

Actually the young people suffer from high unemployement here - the lucky generation of early-mid 90s which was able to get jobs easily is still here despite of impressive economic growth we have from 1989 it still doesn't generate enough well payed jobs, especially in some sections.

The large, though temporal emigraion is also the result of the 'baby boom' from early 1980s - those people are entering the age when they start working from the beginning of XXIst century and it will take some time before the polish economy will finally be ready to absorb them all.

I think it will be something quite opposite - the returning people will generate more jobs starting their own companies - I know several examples myself.

OK, my mistake, bad example. My point remains though. All the EU countries, with the possible exception of Germany, are small fry compared to the big boys like the US, Russia, China, etc. If we separate, those big boys are going to stomp all over us when we have competing interests. Better to gang up and give ourselves more clout.

I agree with the conclusion, but what Russia is doing among the 'big boys' ?

Its economy has the size of the Netherlands or slightly bigger... In the EU - the UK, Italy, Germany, France and maybe even Spain are wealthier. It is not even much larger than Polish economy.
Actually oil and gas fed growth it experiences is rather bad reason to give them so much credit - the membership in G8 was given for political reasons to appease former super-power's pride, but Russian Federation is only bigger Saudi Arabia or Iran and comapring to any other G8 state it is like a beggar or very poor and odd causin.

[Kralizec]

I agree with the conclusion, but what Russia is doing among the 'big boys' ?

As has been mentioned, they're a major exporter of fossil fuels and other recources and many nations depend on them. Other then that it's just another thuggish country.

Its economy has the size of the Netherlands or slightly bigger... In the EU - the UK, Italy, Germany, France and maybe even Spain are wealthier. It is not even much larger than Polish economy.

I was a little sceptical about that one, so I looked it up. I was surprised...

GDP
(official exchange rate)
Russia: $740.7 billion
Netherlands: $581.3 billion
Spain: $1.019 trillion
Poland: $246.2 billion

The strenght of the Euro currency vs. the dollar obviously has a big hand in this. In terms of purchasing power, Russian and Polish civilians are wealthier then these figures suggest.

GDP
(purchasing power parity, per capita)
Russia: $11,000
Netherlands: $30,300
Spain: $25,600
Poland: $13,100

(source: CIA factbook)

[BDC]

Russia lives on oil. It's doomed once it runs out. Those with money will flee, those without will be in real trouble.