EU has new members

[BDC]

Accepts Louis' wisdom and excludes Sweden, Finland and Austria as democratic nations and that they belong to western Europe.

Finland does border Russia, so it's geographically east...

Maybe he means 1995 anyway.

[edyzmedieval]

About Romania and Bulgaria: there are too many new members who are too underdeveloped and have joined too soon.
Nonetheless: welcome and here's to a fruitful partnership.

Thank you Louis.

[Ironside]

Finland does border Russia, so it's geographically east...

Maybe he means 1995 anyway.

That's why he corrects himself with 1986 instead of 1989 you know

And Finland is still not democratic.

[Kagemusha]

That's why he corrects himself with 1986 instead of 1989 you know

And Finland is still not democratic.

Quoted for the truth. It may seem from outside that we are a democratic Nation,but its just a big scheme to fool other countries into foolish sense of security. Infact Finland is a worst kind of rogue state ruled by a unique female dictator called Tarja Halonen. Soon there will be banners and sculptures of her all over the world, once our devious plans of world domination will be revealed. Osama and Kim Yong Il are nice little boys when compared to the future dictator of the world.Watching her will propably melt the eyes of lesser men.See for your self if you dont believe me:



While the IAEA is foolishly worried about Iran´s nuclear program. Finland is building at the moment not first,second or third, but its sixth Nuclear reactor. These reactors are pumping out material for immense Nuclear arsenal which will be used on sudden first strike against west,while Russia will get all the blame and retaliation,becouse the Missiles are practicly launched from Russia or atleast from so small country near Russia that it cant be pointed out without immense knowledge of Geography. So when you sip your beer or coffee and think that you are safe,beware soon all you will be doing is hailing Tarja 1st the Dictator of Tellus!

[Peasant Phill]

EU needs to die. Only costs money and slows down already painfully slow decisionmaking, and it sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong. And they just don't get a hint, we said NO to your consitution so LISTEN instead of trying to covertly implement it anyway. The majority of us DON'T want Turkey in the EU, so LISTEN instead of throwing them on our laps.

Now let's look at this wise and informed statement provided to us by one of the European populace who has benefitted from the EU and all its predecessors.

EU needs to die.

A statement any intellectual would make about an orginasation. Ignoring any benefit and only focussing on the negative, because if there was a decent benifit/cost ration a reorganisation would be desired above dumping the whole idea.

And they just don't get a hint, we said NO to your consitution so LISTEN instead of trying to covertly implement it anyway. The majority of us DON'T want Turkey in the EU, so LISTEN instead of throwing them on our laps.

1) Turkey is far from in the EU. No decision has been made and that's the real problem (like Louis said).
2) How do you know if the majority of the populace of the EU MEMBER STATES ( Not the Netherlands alone) are against the inclusion of Turkey. Show me a poll and I'll believe you but until then this is just an unfounded statement (like the rest of your post).
3) Their was no majority against the constitution. There was a majority against the constitution in certain longstanding member states. As a result other referenda were put off and the constitution it its current form was put in the freezer. I must admit that this was a political manoeuvre so the constitution wasn't shot down completly as the atmosphere when it was voted on was very focussed on money.

Only costs money

The Netherlands together with Germany, the UK and some other countries like Austria give more than they get back in cash. The famous Thatcher-quote "I want my mony back" is an argument in this country to be against the EU. Belgium, My home country, is a special case as we to are a netto payer, like they say, but get a large but unknown sum back because of all the European institutions in Brussels and the economical boost it brings with it.
But you should also think about the economical boost these countries get from being in this big new free market. No import/export taxes, a moving workforce, one cuurency, ...

and slows down already painfully slow decisionmaking

True, one of my biggest arguments against the EU in its current form. The constitution, however, was/is a first step to an efficient and effective political decisionmaking system. But right I forgot, You voted against it

and it sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong.

Well so does your countries government. The only difference is that the EU involves more people, so the chance that the view of the EU is different than your own is bigger. If you don't want an institution sticking their noses where it, according to you, doesn't belong than you should be looking for a nice anarchy. May I suggest Somalia for it's warm climate and powerhungry warlords.

[Fragony]

Of course it has already been decided that Turkey joins the EU. For the rest, well if someone handed me a bag of money and said here you go go crazy then I wouldn't complain either, but it's me handing the bag. That, and they never asked me anything. EU ackomplishes nothing. They claim to be the ones holding us all together, yeah right, great $elling point. We have reached a balance in europe, that is all.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Accepts Louis' wisdom and excludes Sweden, Finland and Austria as democratic nations and that they belong to western Europe.

Acknowledges Ironside utterly pwning me with his superior knowledge.

Darn, I completely forgot about all those miniature countries joining in 1995.

[Husar]

Of course it has already been decided that Turkey joins the EU. For the rest, well if someone handed me a bag of money and said here you go go crazy then I wouldn't complain either, but it's me handing the bag. That, and they never asked me anything. EU ackomplishes nothing. They claim to be the ones holding us all together, yeah right, great $elling point. We have reached a balance in europe, that is all.

Remember that together we are strong.
What if the Netherlands have a problem with some evil country that for example captured a few dutchmen and they establish a trade embargo. Would that country really care? Would it care as much as if the whole EU backs the Netherlands and the EU sets a trade embargo? Also don't forget about cheap goods. And don't forget that you most likely pay a lot more taxes to your own government than to the EU. If it's all about money, then get rid of all forms of government and live on yourself.
Ok, maybe not that easy to do in Europe but I think Antarctica has not been claimed by anyone yet.

[Fragony]

Yeah the EU handled that brilliantly with the cartoonstuff, Denmark was all alone on that one. Together we just talk a lot. Balkanwars....... we really gave them the shakes huh.

[Pannonian]

Yeah the EU handled that brilliantly with the cartoonstuff, Denmark was all alone on that one. Together we just talk a lot. Balkanwars....... we really gave them the shakes huh.

IIRC the last time Britain changed America's mind on anything (and remember, we're supposed to be their closest and bestest allies) was when we joined the EU in a trade war with them, forcing them to respect a WTO ruling on steel imports. The likes of Bush don't care about arguments over whether something is right or wrong, they care about whether or not you can hurt them. Now imagine a resurgent Russia. Does YOUR country get gas from Russia?

[Papewaio]

If Au = Gold = First Place
Does that meant that Eu = Fifth Place?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yall are English, French, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Romanian, and not European's.

Ah, but the two are not exclusive. They work at a different level. There's room for a European identity because it is supranational, just like there is room for a regional identity next to a national one because it is subnational.

More than that, not even national identities are necessarily exclusive- it's perfectly possible to be both Italian and French. People can have a multitude of identities.

With the return of regionalism, the slow rise of a European identity, immigration and inter-national breeding, a mixture of identities is in fact becoming the norm.

[KrooK]

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

Peasant earnt big money soon after accession - when Germans saw how cheap is food here, they started buying everything that can be eat.

Cars are much cheaper now - because Poles are buying 2nd hand cars into Germany. Furthermore car stealing is lowering - 50% into 3 years. People prefer buy legally imported car than stolen one.

Poles are not blind US supporters like they were about 5 years ago and they are slowly starting to understand European point of view.

[Kralizec]

IIRC the last time Britain changed America's mind on anything (and remember, we're supposed to be their closest and bestest allies) was when we joined the EU in a trade war with them, forcing them to respect a WTO ruling on steel imports. The likes of Bush don't care about arguments over whether something is right or wrong, they care about whether or not you can hurt them. Now imagine a resurgent Russia. Does YOUR country get gas from Russia?

A bad example since we export gas. It's the rest of the EU that's going to get cold

[Pannonian]

Poland entered EU some years ago and situation changed a lot. Due to emigration unemployment lower and payments are rising. Poles established national minorities into some countries like Ireland or Islandia.

Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

[Pannonian]

A bad example since we export gas. It's the rest of the EU that's going to get cold

OK, my mistake, bad example. My point remains though. All the EU countries, with the possible exception of Germany, are small fry compared to the big boys like the US, Russia, China, etc. If we separate, those big boys are going to stomp all over us when we have competing interests. Better to gang up and give ourselves more clout.

[Banquo's Ghost]

If Au = Gold = First Place
Does that meant that Eu = Fifth Place?

Not really.

Au as you rightly point out is the chemical symbol for gold.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of wind.

[rory_20_uk]

Not really.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of wind.

Nope. Eu Stands for Europium.

[InsaneApache]

Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
Not really.

Eu stands for Euphonium, a dense element of base metal that is commonly made into a booming instrument powered by lots of hot air wind.

The most accurate thing said about the EU in this thread so far.

[cegorach]

Isn't there supposed to be a depopulation problem among the younger age range, who've decamped to other EU countries like UK or Ireland? Sort of like rural communities elsewhere, but nationwide.

Not really. I can assume that about 90 % of those people are abroad only temporary. In general they work abroad and come back with earned money.

There are some sectors of economy which suffer from lack of workers now, but it was hard to avoid anyway - building industry requires more people than before everywhere - in the entire EU so it wasn't strange that they are the majority of the Poles working abroad.

Actually the young people suffer from high unemployement here - the lucky generation of early-mid 90s which was able to get jobs easily is still here despite of impressive economic growth we have from 1989 it still doesn't generate enough well payed jobs, especially in some sections.

The large, though temporal emigraion is also the result of the 'baby boom' from early 1980s - those people are entering the age when they start working from the beginning of XXIst century and it will take some time before the polish economy will finally be ready to absorb them all.

I think it will be something quite opposite - the returning people will generate more jobs starting their own companies - I know several examples myself.

OK, my mistake, bad example. My point remains though. All the EU countries, with the possible exception of Germany, are small fry compared to the big boys like the US, Russia, China, etc. If we separate, those big boys are going to stomp all over us when we have competing interests. Better to gang up and give ourselves more clout.

I agree with the conclusion, but what Russia is doing among the 'big boys' ?

Its economy has the size of the Netherlands or slightly bigger... In the EU - the UK, Italy, Germany, France and maybe even Spain are wealthier. It is not even much larger than Polish economy.
Actually oil and gas fed growth it experiences is rather bad reason to give them so much credit - the membership in G8 was given for political reasons to appease former super-power's pride, but Russian Federation is only bigger Saudi Arabia or Iran and comapring to any other G8 state it is like a beggar or very poor and odd causin.

[Kralizec]

I agree with the conclusion, but what Russia is doing among the 'big boys' ?

As has been mentioned, they're a major exporter of fossil fuels and other recources and many nations depend on them. Other then that it's just another thuggish country.

Its economy has the size of the Netherlands or slightly bigger... In the EU - the UK, Italy, Germany, France and maybe even Spain are wealthier. It is not even much larger than Polish economy.

I was a little sceptical about that one, so I looked it up. I was surprised...

GDP
(official exchange rate)
Russia: $740.7 billion
Netherlands: $581.3 billion
Spain: $1.019 trillion
Poland: $246.2 billion

The strenght of the Euro currency vs. the dollar obviously has a big hand in this. In terms of purchasing power, Russian and Polish civilians are wealthier then these figures suggest.

GDP
(purchasing power parity, per capita)
Russia: $11,000
Netherlands: $30,300
Spain: $25,600
Poland: $13,100

(source: CIA factbook)

[BDC]

Russia lives on oil. It's doomed once it runs out. Those with money will flee, those without will be in real trouble.

[rory_20_uk]

Rubbish.

Oil, Gas, and vast mineral deposits.

Places like Saudi Arabia are far more of a one horse pony.

[Keba]

Russia lives on oil. It's doomed once it runs out. Those with money will flee, those without will be in real trouble.

Nah, they'll just use their collection of awesome weapons of mass destruction to get whatever they want.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Nope. Eu Stands for Europium.

It was a joke, rory. A play on words.

[rory_20_uk]