What should I upgrade to?

[HughTower]

Current specs are Athlon 64 3000+, 512mb RAM, and GeForce 5900XT. Game can be quite slow even on low settings, and I fancy a bit more punch. I'm not looking to the best of best, but what can I do that will make the biggest difference to my gaming experience? Can I just buy a new gaming card, or do I have to upgrade other stuff as well?

If you haven't guessed already my tech knowledge is as low-end as my machine......

Thanks.

[Bijo]

A better video card and some more RAM wouldn't hurt. At least 1GB of RAM or even more if possible.

You can get a cheap decent video card nowadays, but I don't have any links handy.

[Dutch_guy]

That Athlon, does that have something like 2.66 GHz ? Just for reference, as I don't quite know a lot about processors.

Other than that, I can only second Bijo's advice: go for at least another 512 MB Ram - if not more ! - and if you have the money go for another vid. card as well. A model like the 7600 (GT/GS), a cheap though sturdy card, 'll probably be what you're looking for.

Do keep in mind though, that with Vista and DirectX 10 on the horizon it may be worth it to wait for the better DX10 cards. That said, never trust the first batch of a new batch of (revolutionary) cards...And all the new (direct 10X) games will probably still run with a card like the 7600, so the damage 'll be limited - if of damage we may speak at all .

[sapi]

@dutch_guy, that athlon is (iirc) under 2ghz, but clock speeds are meaningless and it's still a reasonable processor.

Your adivce makes sense, but i'd seriously doubt what you're saying about current cards running dx10 - from what i've read there's no backwards compatibility built into the the new version of directx.

[Dutch_guy]

@dutch_guy, that athlon is (iirc) under 2ghz, but clock speeds are meaningless and it's still a reasonable processor.

Your adivce makes sense, but i'd seriously doubt what you're saying about current cards running dx10 - from what i've read there's no backwards compatibility built into the the new version of directx.

Thanks for that Sapi, had no idea/

Well, what I mean to say was that future games 'll not immediately demand DX10 compatible cards - as game-manufacturers 'll not want to lose a major part of potential buyers. However, what you're saying does make sense, and, that said, is probably true - come to think of it*

* I'm now totally confused, a while back I thought I read something about some sort of a DX10 mode which made it possible for current cards to run it, anyway, don't count on it...

[sapi]

You might be right, but if i was designing dx10 i'd certainly start from scratch with no backwards compatibility, especially considering what you pointed out about there being a phase in period over the next few years, where most games will support either dx9 only or both (the only exception i know of is halo 2 for vista)

[Caius]

I will use the thread title to my question.

I have 1.5 Ghz Amd Sempron(I guess thats the name), 256 MB and Nvidia Fx5200.

What should I upgrade to?

[x-dANGEr]

I have the same PC.. Except, by time my 256 became a gig! And it's doing pretty good now.. (In anything else than running games.. )

[Phatose]

Guys, just so you know, it's real real hard to answer "What should I upgrade to?" unless you give us at the very least a budget. Else we'll just tell you "P5N32-SLI Premium/WiFi-AP, 4 nVidia 8800GTXs in Quad SLI, 4 GB of ram, a Q6600 quad core 2 processor, a dell 3007FPW, and a compressor/peltier cooling unit. Oh, and a check to me too."

[Beirut]

Hugh Tower,

I have the same CPU as you and it still runs everything well. Look at your other options first.

First off - get more RAM. You need 1 Gig. 2 is nice, but you have to have at least 1. If possible, sell your strip of 512 and get a single strip of 1024. That way when you want to add more, you just buy another stick of 1024. With strips of 512, you run into problems sometimes. Some machines don't like 3x512, or 1x1024 + 1x512 (causes instability), and some MBs cannot handle 4x512. Get into single strips of 1024 sooner than later if you can afford it. (Make sure your MB accepts strips of 1024 first.)

As for you card, decide if you are staying AGP or not. If you are, your "only" choices are the 7600GT and the 7800GS. Many people here like the 7600GT. I like the 7800GS (because I have one) but it's more expensive and some people say the increase in performance over the 7600 does not justify the increase in price. Some say there is no increase in performance over the 7600.

I went from an AMD64-3000/512/9800Pro to an AMD64-3000/1024/7800GS and it was a huge improvement. (I have 2Gigs of RAM now.) Everything looked better, played faster, and the new card allows you to use the Shader 3 options on many games which really pumps up the graphics.

If you stay AGP, and you up the RAM and get a 7600 or 7800 AGP card, you will absolutely see a big fat increase in performance.

If you switch to PCI-E, that brings up the MB question as well as new video card options. You might even have to switch your CPU depending on the MB you buy. What's your budget?

First things first - RAM.

[HughTower]

Many thanks for all the advice on this. Shortly after I posted, my MB blew up & suddenly I was looking at spending more ££ than I intended.

So I decided to spend even more than I should & but a whole new base unit -
Intel Core Duo E6300, 7600 GT, & 1 gb RAM -& suddenly I'm playing a whole different game. It's very cool.

I even managed to put my own wireless card in it without mishap, & then it struck me quite how simple changing components really is (within reason of course). These PC repair shops are charging money for old rope.

[Caius]

I have the same PC.. Except, by time my 256 became a gig! And it's doing pretty good now.. (In anything else than running games.. )

In that case i dont need a upgrade at the moment.

[Beirut]

Many thanks for all the advice on this. Shortly after I posted, my MB blew up & suddenly I was looking at spending more ££ than I intended.

So I decided to spend even more than I should & but a whole new base unit -
Intel Core Duo E6300, 7600 GT, & 1 gb RAM -& suddenly I'm playing a whole different game. It's very cool.

You are talking PCI-E, not AGP, correct?

[HughTower]

Yes PCI - E. Which confused me earlier when you said that 7600GT was a AGP card....

I also read a PC magazine review that was using M2TW as a benchmark. It said the CPU power was as important as GPU for that game, & at that budget that chipset outperformed the AMDs.

[sapi]

You made the right decision with teh core 2 - there's no reason to get anything else.

@the 7600, it's both an agp and a pci-e card and works as a mid-range one for both

[Geezer57]

Regarding the 7600 GPU, I believe the chip (at least the 7600GT, maybe all of them) is designed to work on PCIe expansion slots only, but the manufacturers use a "bridge" chip along with the GPU on the AGP versions of the card, to translate PCIe commands into AGP ones (and back). There is apparently almost no overhead (i.e., slowdown) to this.

[The Foolish Horseman]

Regarding the 7600 GPU, I believe the chip (at least the 7600GT, maybe all of them) is designed to work on PCIe expansion slots only, but the manufacturers use a "bridge" chip along with the GPU on the AGP versions of the card, to translate PCIe commands into AGP ones (and back). There is apparently almost no overhead (i.e., slowdown) to this.

wrong geezer because i have a 7600 gt agp staright from the retailer and i have overclocked so technically it is the best agp card you can get

[Beirut]

wrong geezer because i have a 7600 gt agp staright from the retailer and i have overclocked so technically it is the best agp card you can get

Except for the OC 7800GS AGP card I have in my machine.

cough...

[sapi]

Isn't there a 1950 for agp?

[Xiahou]

Isn't there a 1950 for agp?

Yeah, I was pretty sure that guy is at the top of the AGP heap atm.


I too am starting to think of upgrading- what with tax refunds and all....

My current system is a AMD64 3200+(Venice), 1GB Ram, x800xl(AGP). Is there even an effective upgrade path for this system? My tentative budget is around $500- but I have nothing against saving a few bucks if spending more won't make a significant difference, or conversely I could spend a little more if it would make all the difference.

A faster CPU and a AGP x1950pro would be a painless upgrade- just pop the new CPU in and swap vid cards, but would I see significant gains with the slower mobo/RAM? I loathe reinstalling (sooo many apps and downloads to do over) but I would also consider building a new system if that was the most cost-effective path....

Any thoughts? I felt I was in a similar boat to HughTower, so I hope he doesnt mind my asking the question in this thread.

[sapi]

Personally, i wouldnt' bother upgrading.

Odds are that's a socket 939 cpu (no longer produced) and that's definitely an agp graphics card.

You'd be better off saving up for a new system - and honestly, how bad is that one today?

[The Foolish Horseman]

Except for the OC 7800GS AGP card I have in my machine.

cough...

cough....... yes it is...get 3dmark05 and tell me your result

for any noobs 3dmark05 is a thing that shows you how powerful you graphics card is playing the best games at their top settings and then it gives you a score where you have to go online for and compare you with the rest of the world

[sapi]

Just out of interest, why wouldn't you use 3dmark06?

[Bijo]

Sorry to barge in, but I was wondering if there's any board in existence that supported both AGP8x and PCI-E. I heard some people talking about it, but I don't really recall all that well.

Point is that I'll be upgrading some time but I'm not in a hurry anyway. And mainly, I feel no need to replace my X1600Pro AGP 512mb. Btw, can somebody explain some more that thing about the bridge thing of AGP and PCI-E? I've read something about the X1600 having something like that.

For the sake of simplicity/argument/etc.: suppose I wanna spend €500,- and keep my current video card, what hardware should be bought, that could last long enough?

Or suppose I wanna spend about €1000,- . Then what's the path to follow?

[Geezer57]

wrong geezer because i have a 7600 gt agp staright from the retailer and i have overclocked so technically it is the best agp card you can get

Read the third paragraph here: http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/alba...0GS/Intro.html

And paragraph six here: http://legionhardware.com/document.php?id=579

Here's a picture of a 7600GT AGP card: http://www.trustedreviews.com/graphi...-Group-Test/p4
It shows the bridge chip covered by its own heat sink, just below and forward of the main GPU heat sink.

From what I can gather, just about all Radeon x1xx and GeForce 7xxx series chips were designed for native PCIe operation, and so use bridge chips when adapted into AGP configurations. It's one of the reasons why those versions cost more than the PCIe types.

[Geezer57]

Sorry to barge in, but I was wondering if there's any board in existence that supported both AGP8x and PCI-E. I heard some people talking about it, but I don't really recall all that well.

There are a few, but none are considered gamer/enthusiast boards - they appear mostly targeted at the lower end. None that I would recommend.

Point is that I'll be upgrading some time but I'm not in a hurry anyway. And mainly, I feel no need to replace my X1600Pro AGP 512mb.

It would be nice to have some more info about your current system, and what CPU preferences you might have for your upgrade.

Btw, can somebody explain some more that thing about the bridge thing of AGP and PCI-E? I've read something about the X1600 having something like that.

See the links in the post above regarding bridge chips.

For the sake of simplicity/argument/etc.: suppose I wanna spend €500,- and keep my current video card, what hardware should be bought, that could last long enough?

I'm speculating your current processor is a single-core, using regular 184-pin DDR RAM - in which case retaining your existing AGP video card would handicap the upgrade to a Core 2 Duo processor & DDR-2 RAM. I'd plan on getting a new graphics card at the same time as the new CPU, RAM, motherboard, and power supply. At which point you might as well buy a new case and drives, so as to sell the old box and recoup some of your expenses. That would be hard to do at only €500. Better to keep the old machine intact and save some more money for later. Prices will drop in the spring.

Or suppose I wanna spend about €1000,- . Then what's the path to follow?

A lot more room to play at that level. Suggest retail Intel E4300 Core 2 Duo CPU ($178 US) with heatsink/fan, GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 mobo ($119 US), CORSAIR XMS2 2GB memory kit ($181 US after rebate), a good 650w power supply (about $130 US), and maybe a SAPPHIRE Radeon X1950XT 256MB (or better, depending on your preferences - starting at $220 US). That leaves a little left over for miscellaneous bits and currency exchange variations, but is a good place to start. Note: all prices from Newegg.com (no, they don't ship outside the U.S., but someone on your side of the Atlantic should offer similar prices).

[Bijo]

Thanks for the reply. Geezer, my processor is worse than low-end Athlon XP 1.82Ghz, and the RAM is 1.5gb DDR1 (I've forgotten the exact speed 'cause I know it's slow enough already, heh heh).

[Xiahou]

Odds are that's a socket 939 cpu (no longer produced) and that's definitely an agp graphics card.

Yes, it's a 939 chip, but I can get a new 3800+ 939 for less than $100 and a x1950pro 256MB for about $240 or a 512MB version for $290. Basically, I'd like to be able to turn on all the bells and whistles on current games while future-proofing enough to be able to at least play any new games coming down the pipe in the next year or two. According to this article, it would seem to make sense to go for the x1950.. anyone think that the 3800+ would be able to relieve the CPU bottleneck any better than my current 3200+? Or would the difference be insignificant with ddr1 and the older mobo?

[Bijo]

Hey guys, I'm quite the stubborn cheap searcher (and proud of it too :P) and I've found the following (it's in Dutch, but it won't matter, 'cause the relevant information is universal anyway):

http://mycom.nl/Products/View/ASUS_P...577.aspx#Specs
http://mycom.nl/Products/View/Intel_...475.aspx#Specs

I was thinking of this as a temporary upgrade just to get by a bit, if y'know what I'm talking about. I ain't no specialist, but I figured this would let me keep my X1600Pro AGP8x, and my DDR memory, till I upgrade the whole shebang. But I think my memory isn't PC3200, but 2700, or at least the one directly below 3200 if I recall well.

So, I just wanted to know what you tech specialists think of it, and maybe add some info that I've overlooked.

[Geezer57]

Yes, it's a 939 chip, but I can get a new 3800+ 939 for less than $100 and a x1950pro 256MB for about $240 or a 512MB version for $290.
<STUFF DELETED>
.. anyone think that the 3800+ would be able to relieve the CPU bottleneck any better than my current 3200+? Or would the difference be insignificant with ddr1 and the older mobo?

You're only talking a 400mhz speed difference between those two processors, so I doubt you'd see more than a few FPS gain in games. Normally, you could easily overclock that much while retaining your current CPU, at no additional expense.

So I'd pass on the CPU upgrade, unless you'd consider going for a dual-core - but there the gain is mostly seen when multi-tasking. Few games show a real benefit, and a further drawback is that Socket 939 dual-cores seem to be going up in price, now that they're no longer current production.

The graphics card upgrade, however, might let you stretch you current system's life by long enough to make it worth while. Either a GeForce 7600GT or the (better) x1950 Pro sound good to me.

P.S. Regarding the DDR1 vs. DDR2 issue: when the AM2 motherboards first came out, most tests showed only very small performance gains from the switch to DDR2. AMD mostly made the move because Intel had already completely switched over, the memory manufacturers were switching their fabs over and DDR1 would eventually become less available, and AMD was in jeopardy of losing market share if they forced their customers to keep using the old tech.