take away transoxiana+volga bulgaria and add burgundy+genoa

[mayhem87]

burgundy had their part in hundred years war. They were main rivals of France
(and they were supported by HRE). Burgundy was strong economicaly and culturaly. They meant something......and they have the best wine ;-D

genoa fought against venice (nearly conquered them) and turks.. their generals also lead a defence in constantinople against turks....
have you some facts about those nomads from the far east?

[Icefrisco]

than you mayhem, you have my summed upentire point.
burgundy did in fact for a short time have the most powerful and best-trained army in the world between 1453-1477, though its a short amount of time its like saying athens was not important because it was only really powerful for fifty-years. also, other greek states that were considered "barbarian by southern greeks" would have to be added to fill in the north. then so, according to these modders points of view athens would not be in a classical greek mod. people might not agree but these modders are so anti-western its ridiculous.

Note: this is just a comparison as there is no greek mod that i no of

[Randarkmaan]

people might not agree but these modders are so anti-western its ridiculous.

Half the factions are western... I don't know were you've got the fact that we're anti-western, we're just not anti-eastern/muslim.
Anyway you could just mod the mod, adding another Catholic faction would mainly involve some new skins and flags, and disclude all the 'barbarian' factions not to your liking

[FrantzITA]

at the end i tend to agree with the modding group for the sake of gameplay regarding how MTW2 works even if i think that boemia , poland , hre , hungary so compressed will be an half disaster while Russia will continue to get bigger and dominate as it usually do in my games ( until i arrive of course ... )

[mayhem87]

and what is worse on that? ----> ill tell you.....fighting for a piece of worthless land of steppes, where is one city in region that is 5000km big. Its the same for russians to capture Volga Bulgaria as for Egyptians to capture a big poor land of desert under Tunis ( dunno the name exactly ), the soldiers will be 20 y older before they arrive there. In Europe its different.... the provinces r smaller, wealthier, stronger, better defendable and civilised ! So its better to have smaller states in smaller area, than big states which r spread over half map and have 4 provinces ;-).....so its better to stay in Europe, than expand the map eastward

(Oh, and Genoa had a very strong navy)

[mayhem87]

whats the difference? russia ( over half a map ) with 5 regions or poland smaller but with 5 regions too ...and the mongol problems... i think russians will stay where they r.

[FrantzITA]

i just say what happen in my games ( ive completed the game 3 times )... countries with the back covered like Denmark and Russia usually dominate the game between AI factions ..... so i would have liked to see a teutonic empire to give problems to them both ...

[mayhem87]

hmm i completed it twice, but earlier....those danes r terrible.....they were weak...they never expand. its a little bit mistake with this one

[mayhem87]

after the viking period ofcourse :)

[Sarmatian]

and what is worse on that? ----> ill tell you.....fighting for a piece of worthless land of steppes, where is one city in region that is 5000km big. Its the same for russians to capture Volga Bulgaria as for Egyptians to capture a big poor land of desert under Tunis ( dunno the name exactly ), the soldiers will be 20 y older before they arrive there. In Europe its different.... the provinces r smaller, wealthier, stronger, better defendable and civilised ! So its better to have smaller states in smaller area, than big states which r spread over half map and have 4 provinces ;-).....so its better to stay in Europe, than expand the map eastward

A common misconception...

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

I consulted some of my history books.
The Volga-Bulgars at first successfully resisted the mongols. Impressive.
I thought Aragon was superfluous but it seems it was quite active militarily.

If anything, the Italo-Normans, I guess 'Sicily' lost power to the HRE, France and Aragon. If you want another European power, replace this one with it.

[Icefrisco]

i no that sicily was not that strong but in the beginning of the game it had major impacts on italy and narth africa, then it became the capital of the hre under frederick II.

at this point i think everyone whos commented here has agreed that transoxiana needs to go. who wants to play a relaism mod with a non-existant nation? however, i just need a modder to openly support my cause then the major issue can be resolved. i would like volga-bulgaria removed but at least it existed!

[mayhem87]

Originally Posted by mayhem87
and what is worse on that? ----> ill tell you.....fighting for a piece of worthless land of steppes, where is one city in region that is 5000km big. Its the same for russians to capture Volga Bulgaria as for Egyptians to capture a big poor land of desert under Tunis ( dunno the name exactly ), the soldiers will be 20 y older before they arrive there. In Europe its different.... the provinces r smaller, wealthier, stronger, better defendable and civilised ! So its better to have smaller states in smaller area, than big states which r spread over half map and have 4 provinces ;-).....so its better to stay in Europe, than expand the map eastward

posted by Sarmatian : A common misconception...

posted by Mayhem87 : what an interesting argument :-X , something more to offer?

[Bleda]

I do feel there are too few eastern factions, but on another note why cant we just not have anymore Mongol types of factions. They do enough damage, what about a viking faction that emerges into Europe by sea and threatens coastlines all over Europe and the Mediterranean? If anything, in the East add more Sultanate style factions, less Khanate style (two is enough). Perhaps we could add the crusader states, like the the Kingdom of Jerusalem or the Principality of Antioch. Granted they were short lived, but they were very important bits of history and adding them would be better than adding more Khanate style factions. Instead of expanding the map eastward, why not westward? This game already builds up to the discovery of the new world. Adding more tracts of land to fight over in the new world would be more relevant to this game's context. Forget about all these eastern strongman factions. They are only in the game to begin with because of their relative importance to the development of of Europe, which is after all the entire basis of this game! So yes include Sultanates and Khanates of the east but don't forget they are only important to the degree that they influenced western factions historically. People aren't playing this game in Iran and Uzbekistan and that in part has something to do with the fact with the fact this game is about Medieval Europe not Persia or Transcaucasia. if any of these obscure factions are to be in the game, ask what their importance is, relative to the Europeans. So I say that people should be arguing about the best way to go west.

[AnthoniusII]

I do feel there are too few eastern factions, but on another note why cant we just not have anymore Mongol types of factions. They do enough damage, what about a viking faction that emerges into Europe by sea and threatens coastlines all over Europe and the Mediterranean? If anything, in the East add more Sultanate style factions, less Khanate style (two is enough). Perhaps we could add the crusader states, like the the Kingdom of Jerusalem or the Principality of Antioch. Granted they were short lived, but they were very important bits of history and adding them would be better than adding more Khanate style factions. Instead of expanding the map eastward, why not westward? This game already builds up to the discovery of the new world. Adding more tracts of land to fight over in the new world would be more relevant to this game's context. Forget about all these eastern strongman factions. They are only in the game to begin with because of their relative importance to the development of of Europe, which is after all the entire basis of this game! So yes include Sultanates and Khanates of the east but don't forget they are only important to the degree that they influenced western factions historically. People aren't playing this game in Iran and Uzbekistan and that in part has something to do with the fact with the fact this game is about Medieval Europe not Persia or Transcaucasia. if any of these obscure factions are to be in the game, ask what their importance is, relative to the Europeans. So I say that people should be arguing about the best way to go west.

I agree whith you as i allready said in another topic khwresmid empire (transoxiana) was a super power of the time the mod begins,famous for it's heavy cavalry and militia garisons that kept the silk road open...
It would be wise for realism sake to remove "iran's"provinces from the turks and add to khwresmid empire(transoxiana?)...

[Baltic Hunter]

what a battle field, nice

You have heard the MTR team: no changes. I also think that some complaints are justified in here, but it's their mod, which has to be respected.