Pope Doesn't Like My Gifts Of Land

[Chosun]

Occasionally, when I gifted the Pope some land that I didn't want, my reputation with him would go up. Recently, when I gave him some land, my reputation went to "Abysmal" and I had to give him money to return my reputation to "Perfect." So I give him land then have to give him money. The Pope thanks me but it still shows up "Abysmal." It is getting too expensive give away land to create a buffer around my territories.

[Molinaargh]

It's because you still have units around there. Move those units away from the region before giving the province and you won't have any problems.

[katank]

Yep, move all units off the territory before gifting or it shall be seen as a transgression. Either that or your Papal happy meter overflowed and it wrapped around.

[Skott]

In my current Danish campaign I had this happen to me. I gave Reims to the Pope, no problem. I gave Paris to him, no problem. I tried to give Tolouse(sp?) to him and he accepted it but sent my rating way down. Now I had saved before doing this(I save alot) and was suprised it happened because for me it was the first time it happened. So I reloaded again and same thing. I redid this a few times. Reloading and trying different things. Gifted it with troops in and out of the city and it made no difference. He didnt like it.

Now the thing is in the past I always had troops in the region and most of the time had troops in the town/castle at the time of the gift so I know he'll accept even if there are troops in the city or even just outside next to the city.

I just assumed it was a bug/glitch of some sort and went about my game. After doing the deal I just gifted him some cash to pull my rating back up so no biggie for me. So the theory that the troops have to be out of the territory isnt true or at least not true all the time. I guess its just dependent on the Pope's mood at the time? a.k.a. Just one of those coding anomalies?

[Chosun]

Either that or your Papal happy meter overflowed and it wrapped around.

I had military access with the Papal States so it shouldn't matter if my troops were there or not right? The wrap around theory makes sense if it is true but then it sux!

[Molinaargh]

I had military access with the Papal States so it shouldn't matter if my troops were there or not right? The wrap around theory makes sense if it is true but then it sux!

Not sure, but try moving them out. A lot of people had this issue and the troops were the problem.

[Joshwa]

Are you sure you did it as a gift and not part of a negotiation? Because factions can get suspicious if you start trying to hawk them land

[Chosun]

The gifting of land was not part of any other negotiations. Straight gift.

After moving troops out, it made the relationship to go down to reasonable instead of abyssmal so it got a little better. I wonder if the troops have to move completely off the land not just out of the city. Alot of times, the army doesn't have enough movement points to completely move into a different territory.

[Skott]

Okay, I'm running a Sicily campaign right now and I got the crusade to capture Antioch. I captured the city and ratings with the pope were perfect. I built a small church and then roads and two turns after capturing Antioch I gifted it to the Pope and my ratings went from perfect to so-so. I saved before the gift so I reloaded and moved all troops and other units outside of territory back to Acre and gifted it again and same thing happened. It has to be something else other than troops that causes the decline in ratings. Not sure what it is though.

[katank]

I wonder if the troops have to move completely off the land not just out of the city.

Of course, any troops in the province boundary is considered transgression. Any troops in the city itself is gifted to them as well. I would think that getting more free troops would make him happier. So this does sound like happiness overflow.

[katank]

It has to be something else other than troops that causes the decline in ratings. Not sure what it is though.

In that case, never gift the pope anything while at perfect relations. There is no beyond perfect and can only result in possibly undefined behavior. Just keep him happy enough to let you have free rein.

[Chosun]

After playing further into my campaign, I found out that possibly the feeling of the population may play a role in if the Pope likes the land gifting. When I move my army out of a newly conquered and the population still is content,(green) my reputation with the Pope stays the same(started at perfect and stayed perfect.) When the population went Yellow or Blue, my reputation with the Pope fell accordingly. This info is not definitive but I thought it would be nice to share. I am well into my campaign and am thinking of getting rid of the Papal States anyway.

[KARTLOS]

Of course, any troops in the province boundary is considered transgression. Any troops in the city itself is gifted to them as well. I would think that getting more free troops would make him happier. So this does sound like happiness overflow.

i dont think troops in the city are gifted when you give a city away.

the problem is due to overloading the pope-o-meter. give him another dity or cash and he will be happy again.

[Martok]

After playing further into my campaign, I found out that possibly the feeling of the population may play a role in if the Pope likes the land gifting. When I move my army out of a newly conquered and the population still is content,(green) my reputation with the Pope stays the same(started at perfect and stayed perfect.) When the population went Yellow or Blue, my reputation with the Pope fell accordingly. This info is not definitive but I thought it would be nice to share. I am well into my campaign and am thinking of getting rid of the Papal States anyway.

That's an interesting discovery. A bug, perhaps? Or maybe that's just supposed reflect that the Pope won't be very happy with you if you gift him a rebellious city....? Possibly worther of further investigation, at any rate. Good tip, Chosun.

[Barny Bangs]

I had the same problem when trying to create a corridor of buffer papal buffer states between my empire and the east. I gave several provinces to the pope, each time my relations dropped from perfect to abysmal.

After some tips from the forum, I thought it to be my units still standing inside the province borders. Moved them out, gave the city: no problem.

As it turned out it doesn't seem to be the troop factor. Later in the game I had military access and gave Bagdhad to the pope. He didn't like it at all. To be honest, I wouldn't have either, with 70% Muslims and a bunch of rather unhappy people there. I reloaded, turned the population Christian, built two or three "happy" buildings and voilá: the pope was happy with my gifts.

Seems like the pope (and other factions) to are quite aware of what you give them. Provinces prone to rebellion are not liked, as are religious hotbeds of conflict.

[FrauGloer]

This has never happened to me yet, the pope is always happy with gifted provinces. When I gave him newly conquered Jerusalem (more than 70% muslim) it didn't bother him that public order was at 0%... I did pull out my army to Acre, though.

On a similar note, usually when you gift a province, the recieving faction gets some units as garrison. If there is no troop-producing building in town, they get some mercs. Usually. However, when I gifted Antwerp to his Holy-Moliness as a buffer between me (England) and the Danes, the city was empty, even tough I took care not to destroy its barracks. He didn't recruit any units over the next two turns either, after which the town rebelled and was soon retaken by the Danes. All the fighting and sieging for naught!

Has this happened to anybody else?

[Chosun]

That pisses me off sometimes. The Pope can't seem to hold onto the cities that I gift him for very long. Then I gotta go back and retake it for him again. So hard to maintain a buffer.........lazy guy

[Skott]

I find building the city back up after exterminating it helps. Namely the barracks type. The pope is limited by what building is in the city to build troops from. Also if you want him to maintain the city as a buffer its good to increase the gifts of florin to help him maintain a standing army in that city until he has a good control of the economy. His management skills are nowhere near as good as other factions or your own. So far I have found he does a better job at maintaining European territories better than MiddleEastern territories. I dont know if thats intended design or what.

[Chosun]

I found that the Pope loses land that I gift him if it doesn't directly touch my land. I gave him some pretty teched up cities and he still finds a way to lose them if they are not touching my borders. He also gets bankrupt very quickly. What's up with that? He starts out with Boundless wealth but then goes downhill rather quickly. Talk about corruptin in the church.

[Von Nanega]

I believe the Popes army is expensive, and most of the money the Church has at start goes quickly to pay for it. Imagine you have an army of Chivalric knights, Retinue Longbowmen and Chivaric dismounted knights and only one city. Funds would go fast!

[Chosun]

Doesn't the Pope get any kind of money from the other Catholic factions? Kinda like tithing or something? He sure can't survive on the income of just one city and at least in my campaigns, he is not very aggressive in expanding out. So I have to subsidize all of his property accumulation.

[Von Nanega]

Doesn't the Pope get any kind of money from the other Catholic factions? Kinda like tithing or something? He sure can't survive on the income of just one city and at least in my campaigns, he is not very aggressive in expanding out. So I have to subsidize all of his property accumulation.

Probably gets money the same way from other factions as he gets it from you. As for expanding, I would hazard the guess in about 1 in 6 games the Holy Popeness will get the expansion bug. I have seen the Vatican one time controlling all of Italy, I did not give the Vatican any of those cities either!

[FrauGloer]

Probably gets money the same way from other factions as he gets it from you. As for expanding, I would hazard the guess in about 1 in 6 games the Holy Popeness will get the expansion bug. I have seen the Vatican one time controlling all of Italy, I did not give the Vatican any of those cities either!

I doubt that this is a bug. After all, why shouldn't he expand? In one of my games, the pope expanded, too, but only after being attacked by the sicilians. He took all of Sicily's mainland posessions (Naples, Palermo, Bologna, and Florence), but never attacked anyone else (except for joining a crusade or two). Only in one game ever did he actually expand on his own, taking Florence from the rebels, but nothing more.

[yezhanquan85]

Well, if you play as the Papal States, you'll understand that Rome is a very rich city, due to its trade by sea. Do some expansion into Florence and the off-shore islands (convert these into cities) and watch your florins flow in.

In fact, it'll almost be too easy if the pope goes aggro. Attacked Catholic factions gets auto-excom, Inquisitors are just assassins with strange hats (from personal experience using them )...

[Von Nanega]

I doubt that this is a bug. After all, why shouldn't he expand? In one of my games, the pope expanded, too, but only after being attacked by the sicilians. He took all of Sicily's mainland posessions (Naples, Palermo, Bologna, and Florence), but never attacked anyone else (except for joining a crusade or two). Only in one game ever did he actually expand on his own, taking Florence from the rebels, but nothing more.

Sorry about saying bug. I meant the desire to expand vs bug. I will makes sure of my terminology when discussing a computer game!!!!!

[Chosun]

Still have not really found a definitive reason why the Pope likes or dislikes any land gifts. I gifted him Marseilles that I had taken from France while they were excommed and the Pope loved it. He lost it after awhile and I took it back for him and then he hated it. I even built up the city more for him the second time. Finicky finicky.

[Mega Dux Bob]

Occasionally, when I gifted the Pope some land that I didn't want, my reputation with him would go up. Recently, when I gave him some land, my reputation went to "Abysmal" and I had to give him money to return my reputation to "Perfect." So I give him land then have to give him money. The Pope thanks me but it still shows up "Abysmal." It is getting too expensive give away land to create a buffer around my territories.

I've had that happen to me too. I think what happens is you get so much rep with the Pope you roll the Popeodometer over to zero. It seems like it is real easy to get back up to perfect so don't worry about it to much.

Gentlemen, what we need is a Pope who goes to "11"

[Mr Frost]

...Gentlemen, what we need is a Pope who goes to "11"

Guess we'll just have to take a trip to the nearest pope dealer then ;p

[Foz]

Guess we'll just have to take a trip to the nearest pope dealer then ;p

Yeah, it's early in '07, so that means the '08 Pope models should be in the showrooms anytime now, right? They just come out earlier and earlier every year...

If we're really lucky we can snag a model with one of those improved Cath-o-litic converters, and a hat with some badass flames, or maybe a racing stripe. Perhaps even a custom beeper for when His Holiness backs up?

[JCoyote]

Yeah, it's early in '07, so that means the '08 Pope models should be in the showrooms anytime now, right? They just come out earlier and earlier every year...

If we're really lucky we can snag a model with one of those improved Cath-o-litic converters, and a hat with some badass flames, or maybe a racing stripe. Perhaps even a custom beeper for when His Holiness backs up?

Yeah they give us the bells and whistles, but I bet the dogmatic transmission will still react as sluggish as always...

I just realized... with a decent bit of cash and a pope with the right "personality", shouldn't catholic factions be able to buy indulgences to go to war?