US soldier refuses deployment to Iraq on grounds that the war is illegal

[Del Arroyo]

Being lured into signing-up for the military based on fraudulent lies by the government means he does not have to follow any order. Especially one to participate in an illegal war.

This is completely and utterly preposterous. If we could read a copy of his contract, I can guarantee you it would not contain anything even resembling an exemption from duty for political reasons.

He took an oath to uphold the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, period. And if he thinks that him going to Iraq will somehow violate the Constitution, he is simply wrong.

Again, it would be nice if someone could kindly define on exactly which grounds they confidently assume this war in Iraq to be "illegal". Because I have not been able to find any valid grounds so far. And public opinion is most surely irrelevant to any such definition.

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inappropriate comment removed ~Ser Clegane

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Again, it would be nice if someone could kindly define on exactly which grounds they confidently assume this war in Iraq to be "illegal". Because I have not been able to find any valid grounds so far. And public opinion is most surely irrelevant to any such definition.

I hear these "illegal" accusations from people who have,

A. Never served in an Army
B. Have some bias against an Army (like was kicked out)
C. Have some bias against the Armies government
or D. Have no idea how war works, or what a soldier is expected to do

[Marshal Murat]

Calm down man.

Personal opinion should rarely restrict a man from his duty to defend the Constitution.
If you were German, but had to fight the Germans to protect the world from Facist, Anti-Semitic rule, would you do it? It depend on your patriotism, nationalism, and a billion other factors. It however would boil down to whether you are going to fight for or against the U.S. If your not going to fight the Germans, then you should resign IMMEDIATELY.
Don't just sit there, and then when the call comes in you say "OOPS, sorry, no-can do man. I'm German! I can't kill my neighbors."

Overall
I'll admire his spirit, but thats more a political activist and like the courtmartial says 'conduct unbecoming of a gentleman and an officer.'

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

I'll admire his spirit

I simply can't.

"You're going to Iraq, you know what the possibility of going was"

"But I can't do it"

"Why not? You're a soldier, you can't simply say 'no'"

"The war is illegal"

"Really? Are we blowing up cars in buildings?"

"It's still illegal"

[Navaros]

He took an oath to uphold the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, period. And if he thinks that him going to Iraq will somehow violate the Constitution, he is simply wrong.

Iraq was not the USA's enemies, Saddam even said he didn't want a war with the USA. Going to Iraq wouldn't be upholding anything other than fraudulent lies by the US government and possibly crusading for Oil.

I find it very interesting how many posters in this thread completely ignore the fact that he was lured to sign-up to the army based on fraud by the government. That gets sweeped under the rug as if it doesn't exists because it is an inconvenient fact.

Also the UN said that USA can't invade Iraq, but USA did anyhow. Another inconvenient fact that keeps getting swept under the rug.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Iraq was not the USA's enemies, Saddam even said he didn't want a war with the USA. Going to Iraq wouldn't be upholding anything other than fraudulent lies by the US government and possibly crusading for Oil.

I find it very interesting how many posters in this thread completely ignore the fact that he was lured to sign-up to the army based on fraud by the government. That gets sweeped under the rug as if it doesn't exists because it is an inconvenient fact.

Also the UN said that USA can't invade Iraq, but USA did anyhow. Another inconvenient fact that keeps getting swept under the rug.

Oh for God's sake. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. "He was lured by lies of the government". That makes no damned sense. My uncle, in Iraq, signed up because he knew he had the probability of going to Iraq, he accepted it. This little sissy is just scared to go to war, and shouldn't have signed up in the first place. It's called freedom of choice, in America, which means no one is forcing you to do anything, or think like they do. That's Fasicm.

[Navaros]

. It's called freedom of choice, in America, which means no one is forcing you to do anything, or think like they do. That's Fasicm.

Again, this is neglecting that he was induced to making a choice based on fraudulent information, therefore he cannot be reasonably "held" to a choice like that.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Again, this is neglecting that he was induced to making a choice based on fraudulent information, therefore he cannot be reasonably "held" to a choice like that.

Evidence? Is there any evidence a government worker came up to the guy and said "hey, join the army, just do it, you'll get candy"

[Yun Dog]

I dunno chaps

I think the questions about the war and its motivations are irrelevant here.

If you have an army of soldiers deciding if they believe a war is just or right - then you dont have an army.

If you have questions regarding the way your government conducts itself then I would suggest you not join its armed forces, if you believe in defending your country but not in fighting foreign war then I would say dont join the army.

as far as being an officer and a gentlemen - that depends on how you behave once you get there - ie making good out a bad situation. This guy is neither IMO.

The most I can say for him was he was/is very nieve - but he should not have volunteered for the army

men drafted - its a different situation - I will understand a conscientious objection from a draftee - why the army doesnt like them because they make low moral troops.

When I learned about the Vietnam war - I knew I would never fight on behalf of the government of my nation - were our home soil to be invaded - then I would fight to protect those I care for.

If you join the crusade - well what do you expect

[Mooks]

Im suprised that noone mentioned that in the article it said his father didnt go to vietnam either, but wimped out and joined the peace corps in peru (Of course, he couldve been just playing it safe)

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Sure, the guy could've signed up for a different role, maybe peacecorps.

[Redleg]

Again, this is neglecting that he was induced to making a choice based on fraudulent information, therefore he cannot be reasonably "held" to a choice like that.

Navaros you need to look at what is required to become a commissioned officer in the United States Army. Then look at when the individual accepted his commission into the Army. From his own reported statement.

Sure. I think that in March of 2003 when I joined up, I, like many Americans, believed the administration when they said the threat from Iraq was imminent — that there were weapons of mass destruction all throughout Iraq; that there were stockpiles of it; and because of Saddam Hussein's ties to al-Qaeda and the 9/11 terrorist acts, the threat was imminent and we needed to invade that country immediately in order to neutralize that threat.

Okay that was March 2003. He has had amble opporunity to resign his commission if he believed he was lied to by the government as part of his acceptance of a commission into the United States Army. However he chose to maintain his commission. Futhermore in his own words he did not actual research any of the relative information until he was tasked to deploy to Iraq. So in June 2005 he begins to inform himself and decides that it was an illegal war. A little late on that task to claim foul on his acceptance of a commission. So your going to have to stick with what his arguement is.

He will have to attempt a defense based upon an illegal war. This is where he will run into difficultity in the Courts Martial - the Courts Martial will only review his actions based upon the UCMJ which he will find himself in a bit trouble at the level of Courts Martial he will be initially facing. He is going to have to wait until after his conviction in the Courts Martial and the subsequent appeal process through the Military Court system into the Federal Court of Appeals after all Military appeals are through. The link to SPC New's Court Martial will provide a samble of how long that process will take.

And futhermore a certain Colonel did resign her commission in protest, before the Invasion was conducted. Which negates your particuler tack here.

[Brenus]

Tennyson put it best in "Charge of the Light Brigade"
'Their's not to reason why, theirs but to do and die.' That is 19th Century. When people believe their government knew what it was doing. After Crimea, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Bosnia, Croatia etc showed that sometimes to obey orders is not good enough as reasons to slaughter and massacre.
In Vietnam, a French general said something similar, if not as much talented tha Tennyson lines: "Legionnaires, you are here to die. I sent you where you will die"
Now, in this case, yes, he could have resigned… We had same kind of case in France during the 1st Gulf War. Helicopters’ pilot who refused to be deployed saying they didn’t join the army “for that”, meaning going to war. They wanted to get the training, the money but not to do the job…
Well, they were not shot dead, even if the war was legal, voted by the French Parliament. They just had to find another job, and are barred to any official job.

[JimBob]

What the guy did was wrong. Reading this I can't help thinking of Pat Tillman, who hated the war and went anyway.