Womens education

[Tribesman]

Too damn right, if they want a few extra shekels they should take on more cooking and cleaning .
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/808316.html
I like the exposure to heresy bit .

[Husar]

Now that is a position to support, don't let those heretic females grow too large, they may not cook your meal anymore. Until we have robotic servants, women belong in front of the oven, nowhere else.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oy Vey!

[Tribesman]

Oy Vey!

I was going to go with the story that a council of Rabbis are now appointed(to avoid a boycott) to make a descision on if delayed scheduled passenger flights are allowed to fly or not , but this ones funnier .

[Mooks]

Sexism at its best.

[AntiochusIII]

Enslave Teh Women!!!!omglol1!!!

What the hell is the meaning of "Ultra-Orthodox," and don't we always complain about these kinds of things when it comes to topics like the Islamic laws and all those theocracies we all love to despise? How could the Israeli government tolerates what clearly is an authority beyond that of their own core functions? Or are they just admitting yet another level of glorious hypocrisy?

[Slyspy]

There are religious nutters everywhere.

[Mooks]

Enslave Teh Women!!!!omglol1!!!

What the hell is the meaning of "Ultra-Orthodox," and don't we always complain about these kinds of things when it comes to topics like the Islamic laws and all those theocracies we all love to despise? How could the Israeli government tolerates what clearly is an authority beyond that of their own core functions? Or are they just admitting yet another level of glorious hypocrisy?

Its the "holy land". There are so many religious views there its insane. Besides, the woman probaly arent being physically forced to stop teaching.

[Spetulhu]

Until we have robotic servants, women belong in front of the oven, nowhere else.

There's real evidence for that: women generally have smaller feet than men so that they can get closer to the oven and other kitchen features.

[Tribesman]

Besides, the woman probaly arent being physically forced to stop teaching.

Now then Bandit , glad you put probably in there since there was a recent topic on extremist orthodox haredi in this forum .
A pattern emerges .
It starts with nice little rulings , then it applies pressure politically ,economically and personally , then a bit morepressure ,then the threats of violence , then the violence itself .
I just wonder what the next target of this "religeous" purge by this small but very vocal and powerful minority is going to be . healthcare or the judiciary ?

[Papewaio]

Here I was thinking that religion was about answering questions not enforced ignorance.

In recent years, the reforms in the continuing education programs have not pleased the rabbis, who object to women's "academic" studies. The conservatives warned of women's "career ambitions," fearing they would now be able to break out of the "teaching ghetto" and find other jobs than teaching. Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv was quoted in Yated Neeman objecting to teachers' enrolling in "all kinds of other education programs without any supervision of rabbis on every detail".

A lot of oxygen theft going on here.

He warned that without close supervision and determining the content, "all manner of heresy can creep into those programs."

Nothing that is good will shrink from the light...

The rabbis were mostly infuriated by the psychological subjects in the teaching programs. Freud and Western psychology had always been a red rag to them.

They are in a league of giants there, other members being scientologists.

The absence of ultra-Orthodox lecturers with academic degrees in diagnostics and consulting required bringing in lecturers from "outside" the community. Yated Neeman's women's supplement, Bayit Neeman, blasted the trend of bringing in lecturers from the "Sephardi faction" and even "completely secular" ones, warning of the women students' defilement.

Another league of giants, this one includes fundamentalists the world over.

Brings joy to my heart to see that funamentalists can come together in their mutual hatred of secularists. Where there is unity in spirit, there is hope for mankind.

[Mooks]

This has very little to do with religion I think. Its blatant sexism.

[Tribesman]

This has very little to do with religion I think. Its blatant sexism.

Its not sexism at all , it is just very religious religeousness .
You do not understand this since you are not religeously religeous enough , shown by the fact that you are obviously using the heretical internet without an approved holy filter , plus if you are reading this and the sun has gone down where you are then you are truly damned for using electricity .

The clue to the religeousness of the topic is in the words "ultra-orthodox" .

[yesdachi]

The clue to the religeousness of the topic is in the words "ultra-orthodox" .

I thought that was some kind of detergent the women used to clean with.

[Don Corleone]

Enslave Teh Women!!!!omglol1!!!

What the hell is the meaning of "Ultra-Orthodox," and don't we always complain about these kinds of things when it comes to topics like the Islamic laws and all those theocracies we all love to despise? How could the Israeli government tolerates what clearly is an authority beyond that of their own core functions? Or are they just admitting yet another level of glorious hypocrisy?

When I see a Saudi national newspaper decrying the limited role of women in their society, then I'll concede you have a point. This was an article in a leading Israeli newspaper about a practice it described as intolerable. Personally, I think airing one's own dirty laundry in the hopes of fixing it is a sign that a democracy is working well.

But you go on ahead and fight those straw men, big guy.

[Don Corleone]

The part I find interesting in this whole ordeal is that these sexist jackasses are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. None of these lazy louts work!!! Nope, that's too undignified for their holy selves. They sit around eating, lounging and reading holy texts all day. Their women, beyond domestic duties, also have to support the family financially. Not an easy task when you're not allowed to receive a continuing education...

[Kralizec]

Or they could just breed a lot. From what I heard Israeli child welfare payments are insanely high (for reasons you can guess if you don't know them)

In wich case, the women would still be the income providers.

[Mooks]

The bad thing about sarcasm is, that you never know when someone is actually doing it, you only suspect it.

[AntiochusIII]

When I see a Saudi national newspaper decrying the limited role of women in their society, then I'll concede you have a point. This was an article in a leading Israeli newspaper about a practice it described as intolerable. Personally, I think airing one's own dirty laundry in the hopes of fixing it is a sign that a democracy is working well.

But you go on ahead and fight those straw men, big guy.

Hey, I ain't picking fight with the Israelis. Merely questioning, which is always healthy, as you'd agree.

And where did I even imply that Saudi Arabia (or any Middle Eastern country, for that matter) is a bastion of human rights? Straw man

[Don Corleone]

Hey, I ain't picking fight with the Israelis. Merely questioning, which is always healthy, as you'd agree.

And where did I even imply that Saudi Arabia (or any Middle Eastern country, for that matter) is a bastion of human rights? Straw man

I'm not certain I understand your angle here. Your first post seemed to imply that there was hypocricy that when Islamic countries oppress women, we decry it, but it's okay when Israel does it.

I raise the point that actually, the mainstream in Israel are the ones leading the charge to change this practice. I also contrast this with the official stamp of approval this mistreatment of women receives in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries, thus countering your charge of hypocricy.

And you argue that I'm putting up straw men? Sorry amigo, I didn't leave you very much to work with, did I?

[Tribesman]

I'm not certain I understand your angle here. Your first post seemed to imply that there was hypocricy that when Islamic countries oppress women, we decry it, but it's okay when Israel does it.

I raise the point that actually, the mainstream in Israel are the ones leading the charge to change this practice. I also contrast this with the official stamp of approval this mistreatment of women receives in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries, thus countering your charge of hypocricy.

Well the thing is Don the main stream are and have been objecting to just about all the moves for change the ultras have been making over the past couple of years , but the main stream is losing out overall , especially in Jerusalem .

BTW since you mentioned the Saudi press , just wondering if you have read any of the English languade editions lately ?
Condidering that they are either government approved or self censored to avoid getting a call from them men with whips and cattle prods .
Don't you find the approved news and editorials to be very very very not really friendly in the slightest to your country and government who strangely calls them allies .

[Don Corleone]

I don't consider Saudi Arabia as an ally, and I know they don't consider us as one.

Sorry, Tribesman, didn't realize this was another of your 'Israelis are devils' threads. I'll quit posting and join into a couple of threads where they're looking for actual dialogue.

[doc_bean]

The rabbis wives should have just told them that there ould be no dinner if they did something stupid like that, then we wouldn't have any of this nonsense

[Tribesman]

Sorry, Tribesman, didn't realize this was another of your 'Israelis are devils' threads. I'll quit posting and join into a couple of threads where they're looking for actual dialogue.

You know that statement you posted from Watchman in your topic ?
Are you going out of your way to prove it true ?

Here , let me be so bold as to make it easier for you to understand .

Since the society concerned is Israeli and the mainstream that are losing out to a small but vocal and powerful minority are Israelis then it is a Israelis are getting screwed over by fundamentalist nutters especialy in Jerulsalem where the nutters are forcing them out and shuting their businesses down thread , not a 'Israelis are devils' thread.

Is that easier to understand now ?

[Major Robert Dump]

How does an unltra-orthodox female know when its time to go to school?

By the clock on the oven! YAAAAAAAR

[KukriKhan]

By way of "compare-and-contrast", we have The Amish, a back-to-the-basics, essentially ultra-orthodox christian sub-culture, that allows no education beyond 8th grade (for boys or girls).

This often conflicts with local mandatory education regulations. SCOTUS decided that the free exercise of religion trumped the benefit of universal mandatory education.

So a case can be made for asserting that secular governments often make accomodation for religious 'fundies' in the areas of education, health, law, etc. And it isn't limited to Muslim, Jewish or other cultural milieux.

[Slyspy]

Yes, but the Amish don't dabble in politics. Plus the men work.

[KukriKhan]

Yes. They also don't pay into or receive benefits from, Social Security (the same as, oddly enough, Members of Congress).

There are many contrasts. However, my broader point is that many seemingly secular governments often make allowance for religiously-based practices of small slices of their citizenry, that would disadvantage that group's members in the wider environment; for example, not allowing education beyond the 8th grade would doom a non-Amish young man to a working life as a janitor or farm worker, with little chance of advancement.

[Tribesman]

Yes, but the Amish don't dabble in politics.

You have ben fooled .
See the truth about the evil Amish takeover .
http://sonoguy.tripod.com/aog.html

[Slyspy]

Yes. They also don't pay into or receive benefits from, Social Security (the same as, oddly enough, Members of Congress).

There are many contrasts. However, my broader point is that many seemingly secular governments often make allowance for religiously-based practices of small slices of their citizenry, that would disadvantage that group's members in the wider environment; for example, not allowing education beyond the 8th grade would doom a non-Amish young man to a working life as a janitor or farm worker, with little chance of advancement.

Yes, but the point is that it doesn't matter. The Amish are isolationist and generally withdrawn into self-contained communities. Ultra-Orthodox jews are not so isolated in Israeli society and have a political presence and agenda. They can also be rather militant.