What is the reason to not include sap points?

**katank** · 01-05-2007, 14:48

Ladders are still reasonably viable. They can't collapse like towers with your unit inside. I've done that to the AI before. It reached the walls and the enemy troops started climbing only for the tower to burn down and collapse with a unit trapped inside. Only 1 man made it to the walls and was promptly cut down.

Sapping is indeed extremely effective and low risk in RTW. Adding counter mining etc. wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe give the defenders some build points for counter mining tunnels, stakes behind gate, that kinda thing.

**Zenicetus** · 01-05-2007, 20:43

Originally Posted by katank

Sapping is indeed extremely effective and low risk in RTW. Adding counter mining etc. wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe give the defenders some build points for counter mining tunnels, stakes behind gate, that kinda thing.

I'm not sure counter-mining would add anything to the game. If it was available, then you'd automatically use it ever time to block the sappers. Net result is a draw, as if sapping wasn't in the game at all. The only thing it would do is tie up one of your units (and one on the enemy side).

There is also the problem of visually representing what happens with counter-mining. Do you just see the ground vibrate a little, when a tunnel collapses? Do you get invisible battles underground, and all you can see is a reduction in troops on the unit card? It's a tricky thing to represent with the current game engine.

**katank** · 01-05-2007, 21:42

Maybe it will be more of a guessing game. Depending on the build point you have, you can cover a certain section of the wall. If they happen to choose to sap there, your tunnel collapses their sap tunnel and they lose a portion of their unit. Otherwise, they may be able to hit a section not guarded by your countertunnels and their sap makes it.

This makes sapping a viable though risky strategy against small forces but a bad idea against a well garrisoned city.

**Ethelred Unread** · 01-06-2007, 00:17

Even easier way to counteract saps is with a moat.

I remember an old, old (well mid 1990's) game set in medieval times where the POV was top down and the castles had moats. You had to send in peasants or other cheap units to fill the moats in so you could sap/use ladders. I'd like to see this back again and would be easier for the game mechanic I'm guessing (rather than Underground:TW).

**Rollon** · 01-06-2007, 04:09

I believe that game was Lords of the Realm I. I enjoyed it too.

**dopp** · 01-06-2007, 06:34

Good old Lords of the Realm, where you could totally cripple the enemy economy with three armies of 2 peasants each and a little micro. Loved sending my 2 peasants to depopulate an entire province.

**NeutralZone940** · 01-06-2007, 19:47

Loved LOTR2 - the sequel that came out a year or two ago (LOTR3?) was apparently a complete disaster though. :(

One thing that game had which rocked was full-on multiplayer, including the campaign map.

I'm still irritated by the tower behaviour - so you capture the tower, but it's 'ownership' (when you mouse over it and get the tooltip) doesn't say you own it? What's up with that?

I loved to sprint around Roman towns converting towers... :)

On the upside, the towers don't *seem* to shoot at your guys once you're inside their perimeter - do they?