Butter, Butter and no Guns - Labor hangs the RN out to dry...

**Banquo's Ghost** · 01-05-2007, 22:52

Originally Posted by Big Tex

Pax Americana is already here.

Not to be trite Tex, but I think it's missing the Pax bit.

Originally Posted by Spino

I never meant to paint all of Europe with such a broad brush but taking into account the general political and economic trends of the last 15 years you can see where things are going. Watching Spain's reaction in the aftermath of the Madrid bombings spoke volumes as to how other European nations might react to similar pressure and attacks.

I know you didn't but the political tides in Europe are remarkably complex compared to your own country. It is too easy to make generalisations that mislead, just as Europeans are wont to charactersise the USA as one-dimensional.

The trend over the last 15 years has in fact been towards more right wing government. Even nominally left-wing governments are unrecognisable as such to an eye of say, 20 years back. And as your conservatives used to believe, Euro-conservatives are tight-wads with the public purse. Military spending is seen as an easy cut, because the right-wing can point to the US as guarantor. It is in fact the European left who want to be distanced from the US - though this rarely translates into extra spending (in France, ironically for your point, the pride to be separate from US leadership has meant they have the political desire to spend on their own defence!)

You misunderstand why Spain changed governments after Madrid. It was not a desire to give in to terrorism, but anger at the way the government lied about who was responsible. Like the UK, Spain has ample understanding of what one has to do about terrorism, having lived with it for 30 years. Their latest attempt at making political progress has come unstuck, largely because they thought they could treat ETA with contempt after the ceasefire. This is a lesson they could have learned from the British in Ireland, but no-one ever seems to want to talk about how that terrorist problem was solved. Spanish hands will be wringing now, but they will be back at the negotiation table in a couple of years.

This is not apppeasement, but dealing with reality.

As for resentment and America's role, all I can say is your government chose the role, and has to deal with it. I strongly suggest that if US citizens feel resentful, they might elect someone next time who understand the nature of partnerships as opposed to vassals.