How moddable is M2TW at present?

**Sarastro** · 01-11-2007, 21:41

First, some aspects of coding are clearly broken, as CA have used conditions etc in the original code which don't work in the vanilla game, and some is totally incomplete - there is a LOT of this in some cases (about 50% of the traits & ancilliaries files), and it's simply a waste of their time putting in so much material into the game which never works for the 99% of players who don't make or use mods.

Second, my major gripe is that a lot of the most important stuff is inaccessible in hardcode, and many of the commands / events / conditions that have been released by CA are either broken or only work in selective files. This makes a lot of strat and text modding (ie traits, ancilliaries, events and ingame systems like families) either hard or impossible to mod properly. Also, some of the changes between versions (for example, ability to select faction heirs) which modders are most likely to want to change or use, are inexplicably hardcoded and put out of our reach. This is even more annoying when those changes then turn out to be broken (like faction heir selection), and we have no way to fix it.

I realise that there is a certain amount of protection that the company wants over their property, but surely that is more the battle game & basic engine than the strategy side.

It would be very nice after RTW and M2, in the next TW game, to see all aspects of the strategy / rp game moddable.

PS Goatbuster, check out Lands to Conquer & various other map mods on www.twcenter.net

**Kralizec** · 01-13-2007, 20:24

Maybe a stupid question...is it known yet wether MTW2 can support more factions then RTW?
I haven't been following MTW2 news for a while so I probably missed a lot of things.

**Kralizec** · 01-15-2007, 00:25

Was a stupid question, apparently...

**Caliban** · 01-15-2007, 05:43

Originally Posted by Sarastro

First, some aspects of coding are clearly broken, as CA have used conditions etc in the original code which don't work in the vanilla game, and some is totally incomplete - there is a LOT of this in some cases (about 50% of the traits & ancilliaries files), and it's simply a waste of their time putting in so much material into the game which never works for the 99% of players who don't make or use mods.

I'm not aware of any 'broken code' in M2, if you have found something that you think is a major bug, please drop the details to us at
bugs 'at' creative-assembly.com.au and we will look into it more closely.

Originally Posted by Kralizec

. is it known yet wether MTW2 can support more factions then RTW?

Yes, M2TW supports upto 31 factions I believe.

**Warluster** · 01-15-2007, 06:57

no, M2TW supports 21

wait let me think, there was

England
Scotland
France
Spain
HRe
Milan
Venice
Papal States
Mongols
Timurids
Poland
Hungary
Denmark
moors
portugal
egypt
turkey
russia
rebels
byzantine empire
aztecs

yep, 21 factions, but someone realised recently how to raise that

**Kralizec** · 01-15-2007, 14:18

MTW only had 20 something factions, but that didn't prevent modders from adding more. And apparently that's possible with MTW2 as well.

Thank you for the answer Caliban

**Sarastro** · 01-15-2007, 19:07

Originally Posted by Caliban

I'm not aware of any 'broken code' in M2, if you have found something that you think is a major bug, please drop the details to us at
bugs 'at' creative-assembly.com.au and we will look into it more closely.

Yes, M2TW supports upto 31 factions I believe.

Just like to follow this up on the forums as well as emailing the bugs. I've been almost solely modding traits and ancillaries, so I'll tell you what I know about them.

First, there is one MAJOR bug. The code for anti-traits is broken, no question. The RTW code & traits system worked so that certain traits had anti-traits - for example, GoodCommander (which gives command stars) had an anti-trait of BadCommander (which takes command stars). Winning a battle would earn a point in GoodCommander, losing a battle would earn a point in BadCommander. Each trait has levels which are attained when a certain threshold of points are achieved in it. For example:

GoodCommander

Level 1 Promising Commander (+1 Command)
Threshold 1 point

Level 2 Aspiring Commander (+1 Command)
Threshold 2 points

Level 3 Proven Commander (+3 Command)
Threshold 4 points

etc

MOST IMPORTANTLY, the anti-trait system meant that +1 point in GoodCommander = -1 point in BadCommander, and vica versa. This created a scale between the anti-traits which your general would move up and down according to his successes and failures. This system also controls agent skill, diplomat & princess rankings, piety, loyalty, etc etc almost every attribute & trait system in the game.

In Vanilla M2, the system is broken: gaining +1 trait in an anti-trait will COMPLETELY ERASE any points in the previous trait, and return the character to 0, or point 1 in the gained antitrait. This is why, in vanilla M2, assassins, spies, diplomats and princesses, lose all their skill after 1 failed mission, chivalry & dread traits are constantly reset almost every turn, making most characters permanently hover around 0-2 chivalry / dread, command ratings are wiped out after a single loss, etc.

No matter how many disapproving question marks you put around it, this IS broken code. It has been hotfixed by several modders (including myself), as these boards show, but these fixes have their own limits - you may not be aware of the problem, but the post discussing anti-traits in bold type currently below this one has a 2 page disscussion on the subject, and it has been a well-known bug from day 1. It should - like many of these bugs - be incredibly easy to fix in the hardcode, (it worked perfectly well in RTW) except we modders cannot do it. This one simple fix would solve so much of the broken traits system, please include it in patch 1.2.

As for the rest, my own observations of traits & ancillaries are:

==BUGS==

[All errors where triggers do not work, included in original M2 files.

FatherAnc condition in export_descr_ancillaries.txt doesn't work in that file or in the traits file. Whether it works elsewhere I can't say, but it doesn't seem to be used anywhere else. This makes 1/4 of the relic triggers useless.

GeneralWithAncKilled event doesn't work in ancillaries file as above either for friendly generals killed or taking relics from dead enemies. This makes 1/4 of the relic triggers useless.

LeaderDestroyedFaction event doesn't work in export_descr_character_traits.txt. Whether it works elsewhere I can't say, though clearly something works on destroying a faction, as a hidden trigger for StrategyDread is activated (see possible bugs below).

Not my area, but if you look in descr_missions.txt and descr_faction_standings.txt you will find that faction standing rewards for regicide missions don't exist.

PLUS way, way too many unfinished & bugged traits & ancillaries to list here. For a list of the major ones, see the readme posted at the top of this thread here.

==POSSIBLE BUGS==

There are hardcoded trait gains/losses. On destroying a faction, faction leader will get +1 strategydread - THIS ISN'T IN THE TRAITS FILE. If not a bug, it seems quite nonsensical. This could also explain the gain of Corrupt trait & Superstitious trait in odd situations where there is no trigger in the traits file.

GeneralAbandonCrusade event doesn't seem to work in export_descr_character_traits.txt. Trigger using it which gives -3 CrusaderHistory doesn't activate. Not fully tested this one.