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[Bayard]

I think there should be at least one more province/city in France, which was the most populated kingdom of Europe during the Middle Ages: 15 to 20 millions "Frenchman" compared to only 4 in England and Spain for example.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think there should be at least one more province/city in France, which was the most populated kingdom of Europe during the Middle Ages: 15 to 20 millions "Frenchman" compared to only 4 in England and Spain for example.

France indeed had a much greater population than other nearby states during the period being modeled, but I think the population of the area is only a secondary factor in determining the number of provinces is represented. Spain and England had drastically lower populations than France, but were able to raise and maintain armies of comparable fighting capacity, and their treasuries weren't exactly tiny by comparison, either.

[AnthoniusII]

I think there should be at least one more province/city in France, which was the most populated kingdom of Europe during the Middle Ages: 15 to 20 millions "Frenchman" compared to only 4 in England and Spain for example.

Twenty milions????When crusaders of the 1st crusade saw Constantinople they admited that the 10 biggest cities of western europe could fit in the city's ground.In the plague period 60% of europe's population died...they were almost 10 milions!!How france had 20 milions of it's own?European cities were just villages compered to huge east urban centers like Thesalonica,Anthioch,Edessa,Bagdad,Alexandria and many more...The only exeption were the islamic cities of south spain Cordoba,Granada etc.

[Sandouras]

Anthonius, I just noticed you are Greek as well! Hehe patrioti!
Arent you a bit biased in your last post?

[AnthoniusII]

My dear felow sadournas is there any Thesallonike else than in Greece?Anyway what i have wrote is the memories of a crusader when he saw Constantinople.For the european population the info i use was in "history chanel" movie about the plague and the afects it had to the known world.That's it,i had no bad intantions to anyone i'm just trying to be correct.I am not perfect...who is anyway?

[Pablo Sanchez]

Twenty milions????When crusaders of the 1st crusade saw Constantinople they admited that the 10 biggest cities of western europe could fit in the city's ground.

France lacked large cities in the medieval period because it's population was overwhelmingly rural. The French economic and political system favored decentralization, and it also favored castle towns over cities.

In the plague period 60% of europe's population died...they were almost 10 milions!!

So what you're suggesting is that the total population of Europe in 1347 was only 17 million? That is staggeringly low and I have to ask where you've got it from. Reliable estimates of total European population in the 1340s are right around 70 million!

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pop-in-eur.html

How france had 20 milions of it's own?

The commonly accepted figure for the French population in 1340 is about 20 millions.

European cities were just villages compered to huge east urban centers like Thesalonica,Anthioch,Edessa,Bagdad,Alexandria and many more...The only exeption were the islamic cities of south spain Cordoba,Granada etc.

Again, the societies of western Europe were extremely rural during the middle ages. One major cause is the feudal socio-economic system, which kept on the land peasants who might otherwise have moved to cities in search of better prospects. The gist is that in Western European countries the cities made up an insignificant portion of the population.

To be fair, the European population in 1340 (when France had 20 millions) definitely represents the peak of the medieval period.

[King Orko]

Twenty milions????When crusaders of the 1st crusade saw Constantinople they admited that the 10 biggest cities of western europe could fit in the city's ground.In the plague period 60% of europe's population died...they were almost 10 milions!!How france had 20 milions of it's own?European cities were just villages compered to huge east urban centers like Thesalonica,Anthioch,Edessa,Bagdad,Alexandria and many more...The only exeption were the islamic cities of south spain Cordoba,Granada etc.

It is really true! European medieval cities were huge and vast! the "small villages" of London, Rome, Paris and Venice had 100,000 people each! They also had very few publiic buildings such as cathedrals, university, lots of guilds, huge markets, taverns, inns, schools, hospitals, courts. They also had a poor mangemant, with laws, civil codes, punishments for certain crimes, rights and duties list for every citizen. These is a truely poor managemant system! and off coruse that europe had 10 nillion people after the plague and that a century before it had 60 million people, and it is totally possible that that since than, 650 years past and europe's population greaw in 6530%, it is surely possible, isn't it?

[AnthoniusII]

It is really true! European medieval cities were huge and vast! the "small villages" of London, Rome, Paris and Venice had 100,000 people each! They also had very few publiic buildings such as cathedrals, university, lots of guilds, huge markets, taverns, inns, schools, hospitals, courts. They also had a poor mangemant, with laws, civil codes, punishments for certain crimes, rights and duties list for every citizen. These is a truely poor managemant system! and off coruse that europe had 10 nillion people after the plague and that a century before it had 60 million people, and it is totally possible that that since than, 650 years past and europe's population greaw in 6530%, it is surely possible, isn't it?

You are correct about italian cities,london,paris even for some ex roman cities and forts...Constantinople in 1000ad had 600000 population and it was only one of the huge urban centers throuch out the east...European cities could NOT habidant over 100000 (if you are wright) because they had not what they need to...clean water mainly and health fasilities swers for examble.Exept the italian and the ex roman cities no other european one had such comforts maybe because in the catholicism was blasfime for people to clean them selfs...See the famous renaisance pallaces,they had no toilets...If the royal members were like this imagine the peasantry...When spanish took over Granada they destoyed most of those health fassilities...That was the main deferance between eastmen and westmen...Arabs translate all ancient sripts and continued the roman way of city structhures..,When the crusaders ocupayed Jerusalem massacered almost all the population cristian and muslim and desroyed all it's fasillities because they could NOT oparate them."HISTORY OG BALTWIN"

[King Orko]

You are correct about italian cities,london,paris even for some ex roman cities and forts...Constantinople in 1000ad had 600000 population and it was only one of the huge urban centers throuch out the east...European cities could NOT habidant over 100000 (if you are wright) because they had not what they need to...clean water mainly and health fasilities swers for examble.Exept the italian and the ex roman cities no other european one had such comforts maybe because in the catholicism was blasfime for people to clean them selfs...See the famous renaisance pallaces,they had no toilets...If the royal members were like this imagine the peasantry...When spanish took over Granada they destoyed most of those health fassilities...That was the main deferance between eastmen and westmen...Arabs translate all ancient sripts and continued the roman way of city structhures..,When the crusaders ocupayed Jerusalem massacered almost all the population cristian and muslim and desroyed all it's fasillities because they could NOT oparate them."HISTORY OG BALTWIN"

1. the reinessance palaces didn't have toilets because in this times, the toilet an invention that was not still invented them!
2. I read a book about it and it says that in the 11th century Europe started using advanced medicine, they started building hospital and they were the first ones to do so, in spain there was a medical testing for all the citizens once a month!
3. I also read a book about that and I discoverd that constantinople had 200,000 in the middle ages
4. Paris was one of the most advanced cities in europe, with a wide number of people and public buildings and I am sure that it got 100,000 people in that time

[Milovan]

1. the reinessance palaces didn't have toilets because in this times, the toilet an invention that was not still invented them!
2. I read a book about it and it says that in the 11th century Europe started using advanced medicine, they started building hospital and they were the first ones to do so, in spain there was a medical testing for all the citizens once a month!
3. I also read a book about that and I discoverd that constantinople had 200,000 in the middle ages
4. Paris was one of the most advanced cities in europe, with a wide number of people and public buildings and I am sure that it got 100,000 people in that time

??????????

1. The toilet itself was found in palaces of ancient Greeks and many others (I can't believe what we're discussing right now...)
2. So 11th century EUROPE INVENTED hospitals? Did they not exist in the Muslim world long before that? And weren't these European hospitals meant to house only plague victims? And the advanced medicine usually included ingredients such as 'unicorn's horn powder' (that's from the London plague in the 1600's)
3. What book? Great discovery, Columbus.
4. Sure, it was big and great and center of known world, etc but WHAT makes you so sure it was 100k?

[Sandouras]

King Orko you are extremely biased and a blind fanboy. learn2/history
Also, last year i did a project about hospitals in the Byz. empire. Sure, they didnt have scalpels and modern drugs, but you would be amazed by the level of organization these hospitals had. They had wings for different illnesses, wings for the elderly and the staff/patient ratio was 3:1 if i remember correctly, which is outstanding! Historians say that modern hospitals have their routes on those byz hospitals.

[King Orko]

??????????

1. The toilet itself was found in palaces of ancient Greeks and many others (I can't believe what we're discussing right now...)
2. So 11th century EUROPE INVENTED hospitals? Did they not exist in the Muslim world long before that? And weren't these European hospitals meant to house only plague victims? And the advanced medicine usually included ingredients such as 'unicorn's horn powder' (that's from the London plague in the 1600's)
3. What book? Great discovery, Columbus.
4. Sure, it was big and great and center of known world, etc but WHAT makes you so sure it was 100k?

1. these toilets were just holes where you craped in and not truely toilets, and these toilets existed in the middle ages.
2. yes Europe invented hospitals and the great center of medicine ever was in the city of Salerno, That is in EUROPE
3. belive me
4. the book I read