Capo de Tutti Capi [Concluded]

[Pannonian]

This screenshot thing was a low point for me too. I had in fact written and send my suicide note to Seamus too. I retracted it the following day. I didn't see the screenie myself, but what difference did that make? Once I became aware of it's existence I could add 1 and 1 myself. Duh.
Using screenshots spoils the game for people. Redleg and I spend half a night exchanging information about Sasaki, we figured out that he was the Wolf after all, only for us to find out we couldn't further discuss him or vote for him because some people couldn't resist the temptation to use unfair means.
Then there's also this gnawing question: could I maybe have developed second thoughts about Sasaki if there wasn't this screenshotgate? It did after all confirm my suspicion of Sasaki beyond any doubt.

The rules for revealing stuff after one's death need to be tightened as well it seems. Posting 'revelations' after one's dead can be game enhancing. Posting information for the sole reason of spoiling the game for those left alive with the explicit purpose of 'warning' people not to kill you in the next game is a bit lame. Also, this warning might impress thirtheen year olds, but not the mature players.
I must say it was very difficult for townies to guess the exact worth of the information that was revealed by GH though. CR posted a list of tin stars shortly after that I knew was incorrect. And GH's earlier list was random as well.
But with the benefit of hindsight, naming Prole and RR did play a part in the unraveling of the white gloves. Even if for me the pivotal event was the hanging of Moros.

I thought Capo was a good game with the potential to have been even better, but for a tendency for dead mafia to root for the town. With the rules allowing townie protection of others already giving the town a significant advantage, this further unbalanced the game. Sasaki's role was absolutely central to the game, as he knew the identities of the Dons, so his outing by pevergreen to The Stranger and latterly Redleg could have effectively broken the game had he chosen to pipe up. Credit to him, he held the fort for a while, but GH's later reveal effectively put an end to the game as a contest.

I'm thinking that a system of points based on victory conditions may make future versions of Capo work better. Victory by a mafia family gains the most points, thus encouraging vigorous mafia play and countering the pro-town rules. Then comes a town victory (pro-townies only). This is the only possible victory for pro-townies. Losing mafia families have a limited victory if another family wins, but they gain nothing at all if the town wins. This gives some incentive to continue misleading even after death.

It was quite frustrating watching this game as a townie. In that role, I should do all I can to ensure a town victory, yet the dead mafia were making it ever more unbalanced in favour of the town. As a partisan, I should have rooted for the town, but as a neutral it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Orb]

In the future I think loyalty should be spelled out in pm's.

town-you are loyal to the town full stop.
corleone-loyal to the corleones, if they are wiped out you don't have anyone to root for.
Serial killer--weird to have him work for the town I think. If I made that role I would specify that he was anti-town. Otherwise he's just a vigilante.

I wasn't exactly working for the town, I started by removing protection groups because I didn't want too many doctors to get around to stop me performing kills, then continued by removing mafiosi when I needed to. Besides, redemption themes are the best

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought Capo was a good game with the potential to have been even better, but for a tendency for dead mafia to root for the town. With the rules allowing townie protection of others already giving the town a significant advantage, this further unbalanced the game. Sasaki's role was absolutely central to the game, as he knew the identities of the Dons, so his outing by pevergreen to The Stranger and latterly Redleg could have effectively broken the game had he chosen to pipe up. Credit to him, he held the fort for a while, but GH's later reveal effectively put an end to the game as a contest.

I'm thinking that a system of points based on victory conditions may make future versions of Capo work better. Victory by a mafia family gains the most points, thus encouraging vigorous mafia play and countering the pro-town rules. Then comes a town victory (pro-townies only). This is the only possible victory for pro-townies. Losing mafia families have a limited victory if another family wins, but they gain nothing at all if the town wins. This gives some incentive to continue misleading even after death.

It was quite frustrating watching this game as a townie. In that role, I should do all I can to ensure a town victory, yet the dead mafia were making it ever more unbalanced in favour of the town. As a partisan, I should have rooted for the town, but as a neutral it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

That sounds like a good suggestion. Personally as mafia I would root for any other mafia family after my death.

I think a few rule changes would help the game a lot.

The detectives have to go I think, they aren't fun in any game no matter which side you are on.

The townies shouldn't be able to prove eachother by doing protection groups. The mafia should be able to be in on those protection groups and still kill at night.

Townie pm should be made publicly available in the OP. It's too easy to catch people lying otherwise.

Those rules all make it easier for mafia, but I think the town would still have a good shot if they played it smart and had less suicides. A drop in the number of wise guys could balance it.

[Pannonian]

That sounds like a good suggestion. Personally as mafia I would root for any other mafia family after my death.

I think a few rule changes would help the game a lot.

The detectives have to go I think, they aren't fun in any game no matter which side you are on.

The detective works in GH's games because he cannot reveal privately and there are no doctors to protect him. After Rise of the Mob, I'm thinking detectives and doctors should be mutually exclusive. The limited usefulness of Capo's detectives does alleviate it somewhat.

The townies shouldn't be able to prove eachother by doing protection groups. The mafia should be able to be in on those protection groups and still kill at night.

Townie pm should be made publicly available in the OP. It's too easy to catch people lying otherwise.

Those rules all make it easier for mafia, but I think the town would still have a good shot if they played it smart and had less suicides. A drop in the number of wise guys could balance it.

If the town can hold together, it is actually possible to systematically root out the mafia using the current rules, using my suggested ideas and some more. For that reason, Capo is more strategic than GH's games, and IMHO less suspenseful.

[Xiahou]

I never intended to paint myself as the victim, and I apologize if it came out that way.

Don't worry GH, I still love ya.

Let's call a truce and agree in the ethics post that from now on, no post-humous reveals is a rule in every game, shall we?

Personally, I think that's a good general rule. I operate under that assumption unless it's specifically spelled out differently, that my chance to reveal dies with me. Although, in this game it was allowed. That being the case, I think having a character who knows the heads of all 3 families and has a vested interest in seeing them dead is problematic. I felt Sasaki was a very sticky situation- if we kill him, he could spill his guts postmortem but, allowing him to live ran the risk of him putting a knife in our backs when the conditions were favorable to him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Don't worry GH, I still love ya.

Personally, I think that's a good general rule. I operate under that assumption unless it's specifically spelled out differently, that my chance to reveal dies with me. Although, in this game it was allowed. That being the case, I think having a character who knows the heads of all 3 families and has a vested interest in seeing them dead is problematic. I felt Sasaki was a very sticky situation- if we kill him, he could spill his guts postmortem but, allowing him to live ran the risk of him putting a knife in our backs when the conditions were favorable to him.

Well, after round one my only chance of victory was with you guys. And even with the alternate victory condition, I would have had to keep as many mafia alive as possible.

I would never have said turned on you guys post mortem, I've always had a soft spot for the mafia.

[Don Corleone]

I never intended to paint myself as the victim, and I apologize if it came out that way.



Agreed. I just want to put this one behind me.

Agreed. And behind. And like I said, I do appreciate you bringing this game to us in the first place.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I will say that though the screens and reveals and such hurt the gameplay, they did add to the drama. The lynchings of Motep and Moros were quite satisfying.

I think without them there would have been more drama in the last couple rounds though.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I will say that though the screens and reveals and such hurt the gameplay, they did add to the drama. The lynchings of Motep and Moros were quite satisfying.

Ah, this is a good point. Neither ruined the continuity of the game by any standard, and both maybe even added to the drama.

People who say how much the rules favoured the town may be forgetting just how close the town came to losing. The mafia / Barzini's managed to not just kill, but lynch the town's most powerful detective just two days before the end. This after their don was revealed. I was despairing, close to panicking. Ah well, I should congratulate the mafia for their good play - they very nearly won it.

[Papewaio]

Serial killer--weird to have him work for the town I think. If I made that role I would specify that he was anti-town. Otherwise he's just a vigilante.

IMDHO I disagree... Hannibal Lector would have helped the town by eating all the mafia particularly ones who were peds or who were rude, help one FBI agent and eat the other FBIs agent brain along with a nice bottle of Chianti. He probably would have let Prole go to on the basis of manners and fashion sense.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

II'm thinking that a system of points based on victory conditions may make future versions of Capo work better. Victory by a mafia family gains the most points, thus encouraging vigorous mafia play and countering the pro-town rules. Then comes a town victory (pro-townies only). This is the only possible victory for pro-townies. Losing mafia families have a limited victory if another family wins, but they gain nothing at all if the town wins. This gives some incentive to continue misleading even after death.

I tinkered with that for hours over the course of several weeks. Never quite came up with a point system that allowed for the "weighting" that would create the action I sought. Still might occur in version two.

[Pannonian]

I tinkered with that for hours over the course of several weeks. Never quite came up with a point system that allowed for the "weighting" that would create the action I sought. Still might occur in version two.

There's a simple solution, out of your control, that would work.

20 points for each member of a victorious mafia family
10 points for each victorious townie
5 points for each mafioso if a rival family wins

Survival or otherwise makes no difference to the points, only WoG negates the points you get. The actual number of points doesn't matter. And here's the important part.

You get a 1 month bonus to your PM allowance based on the number of points you get. So get on the blower to Tosa, now!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Having outlined the various main events for each player, here is my slightly edited version of my notes during the game. This is the 2nd of three summary pieces, the last will be my evaluation/thoughts for the future.

From the Host’s Perspective

Goal:

I was really trying to set up a game that maximized the number of active participants, that emphasized ambiguity, and that forced participants to develop trust through interaction.

With 10 mafia roles, 6 Townie Roles, a Serial Killer, and 12 Wise guys, I had 29 roles placed out of 56 players. Moreover, though difficult, even the Townies could progress.

All of the investigations are a hint uncertain, adding to the uncertainty produced by a lack of information.

As to trust, groups simply have to form – despite the risk of betrayal – or your family or agenda won’t move forward well. Only the serial killer or the Rogue detective could “win” the game without the assistance of others. Working solo, it would take either of those roles a lot of time and a lot of luck to boot.


Pre-Game Thoughts:

Man, that was a lot of PM’ing. The recruiting went well and I was pleased to see a bunch of folks involved who hadn’t mafia’d with us before – fresh ideas etc. Sending each person’s role to them was calculated. You weren’t just an “afterthought” Townie – specific information was sent to all. Moreover, with all folks PM’ing me regularly, no “active” role would stand out for easy interception. I wanted everyone to feel their role to be an active part. The Mithradites thing didn’t need to get into the thread (he quite politely bowed out when he got my final reminder PM), but it was there so I decided to stream it into the narrative. Since the narrative of this kind of thing can’t completely be a “suspend disbelief and enter another world” thing, I wanted to give it connections to the things players were reading/dealing with elsewhere.



Day One:

We had a good degree of interaction for this early stage. It was, of course, a blind vote for director but we ended up with several competitive names and not just the recidivists. Sasaki PM’d me a lot to settle interpretations on his role and I answered a number of such questions from 4-5 others.
I laughed when I saw Beirut was being elected. I wonder how many times his name has been used “in vain” for exactly this kind of role. Now he’s in his first set-to with us and he’s being selected as a veteran. Love it.
Sasaki is choosing the wild route to victory – this should be a blast to watch. And I’ve got some nicely devious tactics coming from several others. I simply loved Kralizec’s idea to blind PM potential recruits for his family. Good fun!


Night One:

Oh what fun! Both of the Town Doctors have extended their protection to….THE WOLF! This is going to be rich. A townie/Wise Guy Group (The two Sirs, Arach & HughTower – who coordinated pretty well and managed to get the PM’s re-written on form and on time) were frustrated by our nimble doctori.

Ichigo went after Donna Barzini – good targeting instincts that – but his would be partners never showed. He avoided getting killed himself narrowly.

Luigi (Louis) met a similar fate on a protection mission for Sasaki. One partner, Tom Hagen (Don C) decided to work with the Barzinis to kill the General, while the other, Banquo’s Ghost, specifically told me he’d be sleeping – regardless of what Luigi said. I laughed. Welcome to mafia games Louis!

The Barzinis will have some risk from this night – Prole’s escape will naturally garner some attention – but they are the only one’s to successfully kill a target. Not sure why the chose GeneralHankerchief so quickly, but it was inspired as this took out the Corleone Luca before he could even get going.


Day Two:

Wow did the discussion explode after Hanky’s death and the others’ escapes!

Ichigo’s reveal ends up dominating the discussion and torpedoing Kralizec. I actually thought that Kralizec’s PM by proxy was INSPIRED as a recruitment tactic for this game. Unfortunately, everybody is leery of following GeneralHankerchiefs false reveal too thoroughly – with his track record who can blame them – so Reenk never quite racked up enough votes to supplant Kralizec. The Barzini clan thanks you! The crew quickly parsed out the “recruiting” note, scanned the candidates, and hit on Kralizec as most likely. Taking out a Don on round one, with no direct linkage save for spelling is AWESOME Townie effort. What I can’t be certain of is that Kralizec is the one who sent the notes! He did ask about the tactic, but never confirmed to me that he had done it.

Prole benefited from the rules discussion indicating the multiple sources for explaining her escape, but her attackers were spot on in picking her as a Don despite operating from poor evidence. Serendipity both ways.

Regrettably, Ichigo and Tribes chose not to continue – sad to lose them – but I was happy to see the decrease in the number of uninvolved. Hopefully, I will not have to WoG.

I think I will extend the voting/PM’ing sessions – This is a large game and even more asynchronous than the usual mafia game because of the PM/back-channel emphasis I’ve built into the communication/gaming process. At least until the numbers thin a bit I’ll keep it to 30-36 hours (unless someone screams stop).


Night Two

Well, well…the PM’s come quickly and they include the Wise Guys (Boo, Arach & HughT) – no Moody? – planning an attack on Redleg….and Doc Ituralde defending same. Both PM’s early and precise. Me-thinks the “hits” are being staged to create surgeon(s) to defend the new “group.” Now, will the new group grow into a family with a Surgeon working for the bad guys or a mafia hunting squad? Okay, Doc_Bean has just issued his protection PM for Redleg – conspiracy confirmed. What a sharp tactic, though I don’t know how they got both Docs involved so readily.

Of course, it could be a plot within a plot as well. Perhaps one of the doctors is pretending to be in league with the Wise Guys, but feeding the info to the other doctor. When both are surgeons, they’ll be protecting each other and lynching the Wise Guys with near impunity – but I still don’t know when/how the docs tumbled on one another’s roles. Later on, Doc_bean forwent his certain surgeon promotion to help a townie team. He has larger plans for the long term I think.

Into the bargain, a later PM seems to be sending Motep to his doom. He named four partners in an attack on Ituralde, figuring at least 3 would show up. Unfortunately, his partners were Arach (involved in the Wise Guy group above), pevergreen (Don Corleone), ByzKnight (Luca Tataglia) and Masy (unattached wise guy). Hopefully Masy will show up and Motep will simply fail rather than risk death. I am REALLY enjoying reading all this and integrating it! Addendum: hours later Motep cancels the action citing another combo that clearly has him re-thinking things. Pity, I’d written a funny failed attempt for him:

Ituralde did not sleep soundly that night. He kept imagining the sound of footsteps on the wide ledge that ran round all the way around his floor at his apartment building, just outside his bedroom windows. He kept them locked tight in the winter, but he still could not relax. He was just trying to drift off when…

A scrape at his window sat him bolt upright in bed.

He flipped on the lights to see a sliver of metal slipping into the seam of his window and trying to jimmy the lock – a dark, cloaked figure on the ledge outside! Unfortunately for the cloaked figure, he or she was even more startled by the sudden light, overbalanced, and exited the ledge for the garden 3 stories below. A scream, partly muffled by the brisk winds off the Atlantic, was followed by the crash of breaking shrubbery from the burlap covered hydrangea bushes – almost the height of small trees – winterized and waiting for spring in the garden below.

Ituralde tore across the room and threw up the sash to spot his would-be attacker below. The hydrangeas had saved someone’s life – if not their dignity – and Ituralde could not make out anything distinctive about the person limping off into the dark and the rain.

Two pots of harsh coffee and exactly no sleep later, Ituralde made ready to face the day.
Well, that’s what I get for trying to get in too much of a head start.

Well, I’ve got one Mafioso family with two kills and a burgeoning team. Donna Barzini was fingered early on by the attack, but seems to have fallen off the radar screens as more folks come to grips with the solo townie = failure rule.

Stig’s death was a nice write-up by Rabbit that I augmented a bit to wash out writing styles. The concept was all his.

Hanky’s obit certainly gave townies a hope for victory. When they see the damage they’ve done in the next obits they may do handstands. If they assume it is all from one family, though, they could be a little complacent. Hanky was not part of the one family they’ve hammered. Kralizec tried a brilliant tactic but got caught and his mistake killed the Made and heir apparent. I don’t know how the last of their trio can salvage things – be interesting to see him try.


Day Three:

Stranger was in the crosshairs until Kralizec’s mistake. The mis-cue took out Beirut in a landslide. Redleg got himself well covered by the town – wonder how much he knows about the Wise-Guy group and who has penetrated who’s cell system. Interesting. Actually, with the one mistake as a pivot point, this round was fairly ho-hum. An easy decision for most. We’ll see what plots are hatched for tonight.

Beirut wanted a fanciful outing, so I gave it to him.


Night Three:

The murder and attack rate picked up tonight – about on the schedule I suspected. This game is designed to require coordination, and teams need to shake out the kinks. My serial killer Orb has struck for the first time with appropriately gruesome effect. Poor Orb, he’s been voting in a way that would usually get you a few retaliation votes – which he wants as he’s allowed to murder folks who vote for him – but in this game the town is being surprisingly disciplined in its lynch votes.

In addition, MRD went down and we’d have had a third if the Wise Guys hadn’t had PM trouble. I’m not sure if the Barzinis were targeting MRD because they suspected his status or if, like Stig and Moros, they were targeting relatively infrequent players hoping for some quick kills. Very few “pure” townies seem to be in the crosshairs, which does not trend well for mafia victory.

I loved the planned kill on Moros – fuel air bomb! – but the protection had been rendered so it couldn’t happen. Do they know they’re protecting a detective? I just love the unknown quality of this game.


Day Four:

Wow! What starts as more hash-flinging at Andres and Stranger ends up being a riotous turn on pevergreen led by Redleg and Pannonian. Redleg’s analytical style reminds me of my own – mafia watch your backside if Kommodus, Pannonian, Redleg, and I are all townie in the same game! Pannonian hasn’t played as often as most, but he seems to be on the cutting edge of this game from a Townie perspective. The answer is, as always, if the Townies communicate and trust one another, they ALWAYS have the numbers to absorb a few casualties and crush the bad guys. Pannonian has crunched the system rules around in his head VERY well – and is trying to make the basic truth of all mafia games even more efficient by using them. He is a deadly opponent.

Redleg is methodically assembling and assessing all the in-message comments in light of known facts and he’s getting good answers. Pannonian is brutally applying pressure to any suspects spotlighted by his own PM interactions or Redleg’s queries.

Result? At the end of 3 lynchings the mafia are down – I’m assuming pevergreen doesn’t wiggle off as I write – 2 Dons and a Made gangster with NO MISSES IN THE LYNCH! Add into that the other mafia figures targeted “in passing” and you have:

2/3 Dons dead and the other called out for a suicide pact with Pannonian, 2/3 Made Gangsters dead, and 1 Luca dead, in only 3 rounds. That’s 5 of the original 9. The Corleone family is toast in 3 votes!

Note to those playing DONs in this style game in the future. You MUST take a hands-off approach at the outset. If you or your Luca are involved in early-on PMing as recruiters you will be creating evidence against yourself. The Don, especially, is like the king in chess -- support pressure yes, point is a no-no!


Night Four

Lots of murders this night (4), including two by the Barzinis. Even with Hagen reverting to Townie protection efforts, the Barzinis have 3 Wisenheimers and a Made allowing them two kills. Assuming Prole agrees, both Pindar and Xiahou will become Mades as well, allowing them to triple their investigation ability. Prole is still drawing some sniping fire, but the bandwagon never quite gets rolling on her. Poor Byz Knight, the lone Tataglia, was left in a solo assassination. However, with the murders of Boo and Moody, the Wise Guy group lacked its third, so a Byz recruited them both. Still a long chalk, but he might revive the Tataglias – no small accomplishment from this start. The way things are shaping up, night 5 could feature as many as 6 murders. We shall see.


Day Five

What a wild and free ranging discussion. Motep is just providing a target with his posts – he’s actually being more or less completely open, precisely as Pannonian suggests. The bad guys all know he’s just a townie/wise guy, but Sasaki and Rabbit and the others will have no problem letting him hang. Sasaki bid fair to be the King of the Fake Reveal – God help us if he and Herr General are ever paired as Mafiosi, between the two of them they might be able to convince you that YOU were secretly the mafia but that your role was so secret the GM didn’t even tell you, at which point you’d change your vote from one of them to yourself. Sasaki may shift this around and keep himself from getting artillery shot to death. Regrettably, Banquo is bowing out due to schedule problems.

Interestingly, the second real positive development for the mafia occurred this day round. The burgeoning dispute between Stranger and Pannonian is likely to take energy away from an effort to localize on Prole. Either the Stranger’s approach (poke until makes a mistake and then lynch or PM/backchannel murder them) or Pannonian’s approach (use the numbers, put all the discussion and night actions into the open and crunch the combinations, force people to respond knowing that eventually the mafia MUST lie and will be caught out) can work, but the two do not work well together. As these two focus on one another, Prole breathes a sigh of relief. Right now, she cannot win, as there are too many townies left alive. If she decreases the population, she already is the sole DON!


Night Five

Night Five was the night of the WOG. I removed boatloads of folks this time, and probably have more to follow. All told, Day 5 accounted for 11 players – all of them townies. The Barzinis are killing steadily now. The Wise Guys remnants are now bonded with Tataglia and that clan may resurge. They’re killing successfully. This pace could yield mafia victory despite the lack of multiple families.


Day Six

Day six brought about the most contentions votes yet. What a run around. I had lots of issues stemming from the Screenshot thing as well as Sasaki’s role as moderator. I think they’re all ironed out, but I could not dissuade Pannonian from opting out of the game. Hard loss for the town, I think, as he was a powerful mafia foe in this game.


Night Six

Night Six has things back on track. Orb strikes again and I’m sure he’ll garner attention – attention which will help the mafia. They’ll need it as both families have targeted one another. This will hurt the resurgent Tataglias – who just make it to mades and reform in two out of three cases – then the loss of Rabbit to the Barzinis. Still, this had to hurt both ways. More townies are heading out in the next day or two, and they took some more casualties tonight. It’s coming down to the wire – and may hinge on the choice of Don Tataglia of all things.


Day Seven

Day Seven was Sasaki’s day to die. No doubt about it, that wagon got rolling early and stayed on track. Even Sasaki posted only a few times – not wanting to waste effort.

The amazing thing was the impact of the lynch. GH revealed his entire role, more or less, in what seemed like “sour grapes.” GH apologized later, but the fault is mine. I never considered the post-death reveal option, making assumptions from previous games. Assumptions, as the host, are your downfall.

Rabbit then comes back and counter-reveals. I’m reading his as still plotting. What nerve to finger the real Don and Luca – betting that the family can absorb the losses.


Night Seven

Night Seven featured a lot of re-structuring and only one kill. Arach was protected, foiling one effort and Don C joined our jokester team for a smackdown effort on Destro. I wogged Drisos in the mix. I think these last are all active, so thankfully that stuff is done. Tataglia laid low this night.

Only Kagemusha is both a living wise guy and unaffiliated , though a few others could be wise guys quickly (a la Hagen) if they worked at it. Cowhead got a lucky break on his 10% chance with roles and ended up identifying Orb. We’ll see what happens


Day Eight

Day eight featured Moros’ adios. He revealed the information I sent him, accurately, and voted for Pindar. His pals, many of them not online, probably would have gone for it and I know Redleg was hoping for a mass lynching. Was not to be. Moros did not quote the PM precisely (clearly abridged tributary line) and bought a semi-justified wagon from the Barzinis and some of the neutrals. Since Orb drew votes from Xiahou and Luigi, he can attack them on non 3rd nights if he wants to. I think he will.

Redleg was on the right track here. Had both Prole and Arach gone down, it would have been a townie win 12-7 right there. As it finished, its town 10 bad guys 9.


Night Eight

Thought they’d done for Orb but orders got changed. Here’s what would’ve been up.

Orb was relaxing at home, listening to a recording of “Lysistrata” and savoring a late-night sandwich when he heard a noise from upstairs. Intruders, at least these days, were a matter to be taken seriously. He went up the steps armed, a filleting knife in his left hand and a Colt double-action Revolver in his right – cocked and ready. He’d take no chances. At the top of the stairs, it became apparent that someone was in his bedroom!

He crept forward, not noticing the figure in the darkened bathroom behind him who looped a thin rope around the newel post at the top of the stairs and pulled it taught.
He did notice the man lying on his bed, a fedora pulled low over his face. The man spoke in a coquettish voice.

“Hey big boy, you don’t look happy to see me.”

Orb fired his pistol, but the man had already been moving as he spoke. Orb’s fire was wild – he’d never been skilled with a pistol – and he rapidly emptied the six-shooter without connecting with his target. Hearing the of an empty cylinder, the man stood up from his impromptu shelter behind the bed and fired off a quick burst from his Johnson gun.

It was now Orb’s turn to move quickly. Even as he too heard the click of his empty chamber and saw the man begin to rise, Orb had backed away from the door, turned, and made a break for the stairs. He hit the thin rope, tripped, and took all 15 stairs in one poorly executed dive. Hands full, he hit the hall floor with a resounding as the vertebrae in his neck snapped. He suffocated quickly, never regaining consciousness.

He couldn’t feel and never saw the white glove that was dropped on his back. He never heard his killers change the record to Mozart’s Requiem. He was already dead before they exited the house.

The Barzinis continue their attacks, adjusting for the loss of Rabbit pretty smoothly. Ituralde is protected, so that misses, but Kage & Omanes decoy Byz away from protection duties so this time Arach dies. Xiahou is attacked, but missed, but then Orb takes him out for voting for him earlier.

All in all, I think the Mafiosi are targeting one another pretty specifically – but there are too many townies left. An unofficial truce while they weed down the good guys might be the better move. As it is, Tataglia is crippled and largely done, while Barzini lost another made. With Redleg and the pitbulls trying to set traps in the narrower field of candidates, I think this spells trouble.



Day Nine

Hagen is lynched. He’d just become a Made, but he didn’t perform as desired by Redleg and crew and that spelled his doom. The Committee is starting to resemble olden time San Francisco’s – a tad ruthless.


Night Nine

This pretty much ended it for the mafia families. The weakened Barzini’s finished off the Tataglias cleanly, but Orb switched from killing Redleg to taking out Pindar. With Pindar gone, only Alex remains among the mades, so Reenk will need to join him or they’ll need to recruit the apparently reluctant Kage. It would seem that Orb’s identity was revealed somehow. I am not happy about this, since it was a role specific. I will have to check on this.


Day Ten

The lynch vote was pro forma. Alex had been selected in advance by the 7 person Vigilance team. He didn’t get a chance to mount a defense as the townies were certain of his guilt. This breaks the backs of the mafia.

Determined that COwhead did reveal, but re-reading things, I might have been less than clear. I'll demote and not Wog. Not that it'll change the basic math at this point.

I have decided to PM the original 3 Barzinis to see if they’ll concede. If they don’t we’ll have a long time to go with very little action as they’ll lynch Reenk, Kage, and Prole in that order and probably force a reveal from doc, who as far as I can tell is not quite connected with the others. Even with Reenk gone, Prole can’t kill enough quickly enough to succeed.



Night Ten

No action from the Barzinis or Orb. Later in the PM section Prole said to end it gracefully, so I pulled the plug.

A great game – I hope I made the correct narrative decision not to go to the bitter end.

[Papewaio]

Actually I thought the end was better then having it slowly stumble out. It makes it feel part of something larger.

Great game, had me guessing all the way through.

I was pretty certain early on that the last Don was Prole or Red. So I took a chance a bit later and went with Reds side. What I didn't want was Prole to be lynched until after the number of night kills had went down... at least that way we could get the Don and not try and figure out the replacement... better the Devil you think you know.

Thank you very much

[CountArach]

Thanks for that write-up Seamus!

Who exactly was it who killed me?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Fascinating write-up and a marvellous game, Seamus. It was very enjoyable, by proxy

I'm sorry I couldn't continue, but I doubt if I would have made any difference. I'm clearly no good at these games - I suspected Luigi in my makeshift team because he sent a very weird first PM which then changed, and bought Tom_Hagen's line with all the trimmings and fries on top.

Great work on you part, and I'm sad to see that there were some glitches that caused a bit of grief. The ending was well chosen.

Well done all!

[Kommodus]

Good write-up, Seamus!

Interesting how it was really the mafia families turning on each other that did them in. Sounds like you're right - a temporary truce would've been a better way to go.

[Xiahou]

Interesting how it was really the mafia families turning on each other that did them in. Sounds like you're right - a temporary truce would've been a better way to go.

It'd never work. To adequately work together, they'd have to know each other's membership, which would just make it a case of seeing who would stab the other in the back first. Also, once they knew who your members were, what would stop them from betraying you postmortem? The families were each other's enemies just as much as they were the town's.

Also, most of the original families members were dead for all but the Barzinis, so you have no way of knowing who the new members- if any- were. Made investigations were unreliable, considering the townie kill groups, a criminal result wouldn't mean mafia. On the subject of townie kill groups, I think it might've been an interesting idea to only allow them with approval from an existing family. Having townies able to get together on their own and kill enemies gives the town too much power imo. I dont think the town is supposed to be able to actively kill their enemies- they're supposed to use lynches.

[HughTower]

All, except for Sasaki in N1 (when we just wanted, naively, a high profile kill), our targets were decided upon for being quiet or new players. Redleg was not yet the force he would later become, so we were surprised to run into protection there. We targeted these people because we needed kills to promote ourselves & we didn't want them to fail. There was also the small chance we might pick off a hiding detective or doctor. Once the Barzini got into full flow, we assumed they were doing the same to promote their wiseguys quickly, & we worried about being picked off almost unthinkingly. Which is, in the end, what did happen to us.

Oh, luigi, I wish I could give you full credit for directing us to CR, but we targeted him more because he wasn't a focal point in the thread, & it seemed unlikely that he would being protected, & therefore we got our kill. And, while I was aware that you had fingered him (but only subtly, I believe?), I can't answer for the Count & BK - all I know is that we reached a consensus on it without much debate & sent our PM's in.

[Ironside]

Good write-up, Seamus!

Interesting how it was really the mafia families turning on each other that did them in. Sounds like you're right - a temporary truce would've been a better way to go.

In this game, the way to a townie win is just that, to make sure that the mafia is busy killing eachother.
The current rules has a tendency for loopsided results, for both the town and the mafia.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Last piece of my write up.

I learned a lot from this first Capo game. I will incorporate many new wrinkles into the next version – which will be a few months off as I think too many super-big games like this would draw down the energy too much. Here’re a few thoughts.


On the strategies and tactics of this game.

I saw four distinct strategies being used by the townies.

Lots of posts and pressure applied in the public thread. The Stranger did this, almost to the point where some accused him of spamming. The basic goal behind this approach, of course, is to force Mafiosi into the conversation and let them trip up on their own stories. Sasaki and others have used this approach in other games. It has 2 drawbacks here. First, it is more a test of your arguing skills than your mafia status. At various points, under pressure, Motep and The Stranger himself came off as having something “wrong” – even though they were just townies. Secondly, the volume of posts generated can actually put off other interaction, providing a “cheap” reason for someone to post once saying “this is silly” and just lurk from there.

Another strategy is the “research and assassinate” approach. Rather than relying on lynching as your primary tool, you identify probable bad guys and then kill them at night. This was the approach that was at least dabbled in by Moros and company – even Redleg’s team tried it once. However, while it is effective in that most of the bad guys aren’t protected at night (as they’re out hunting) it takes relatively large groups of townies and creates confusion in “Guilty” as a detective tool (the chap who helped you on night two may be a Made who thereafter claims to be a townie with a permanent guilty label earned helping you – excellent cover!). For Moros, the Rogue detective, it was a role-centric M.O., but it is a two-edged tool for townies.

A third approach is that applied by Pannonian – heavy direct pressure applied to suspects including suicide pacts. This, by the way, is a powerful if somewhat brutal tactic. The essential fact of any mafia game is that the townies outnumber the bad guys. The townies win only if the town wins and should be willing to absorb casualties in achieving the objective. This is an important point. The drawback here is that this also increases the attrition rate for the town, reducing the overall time available to find the Mafiosi. If you have a relatively short list of suspicious targets, however, it is a brutally effective move. In Capo, Pannonian tried to apply this tactic just a hint late. Targeting Prole would have been a quick townie win if he’d pushed it a day earlier – she was the sole Don and her “I’m not gonna kill myself argument” never quite answered Pannonian’s reasoning. However, with new Dons getting spawned, I think there are too many potential targets to make this a regular tactic. Don’t underestimate this approach’s power in certain situations though.

The fourth approach was a combination of analysis and trap. Force others to participate in townie groups and learn from their absence or group failures who is a bad guy. Coupled with a methodical analysis of posts, this was the tool used to defeat the mafia in this game. Had the mafia turned away from fratricide and focused on killing townies exclusively, this may not have been enough. Combined with internecine warfare, it was a winning combination.


The Mafia, by family.

Tataglia

These folks were snake-bit from the early going. Day One seemed promising, with their Made being elected Director and their Don coming up with a novel strategy for “remote” recruiting so that they wouldn’t be traceable. By the end of day Three, this had all been reversed. Their Don had been traced via text analysis and lynched and then their Made was killed as the result of a small PM error. This is illustrative of the difficulties in Mafia games – the slightest shred of verifiable evidence has profound and quickly used value.

The now-solo Luca, ByzKnight, was resilient enough to find and then recruit the independent “Wise Guy” team of Arach, Boo, and HughT. Kudos to him for a never-sound-retreat attitude. Only the Barzini’s targeting of this group just as the recruiting occurred prevented a resurgence of the Barzini family. As it was, they just got it together again when they were down to Byz and Don Arach.

Corleone

Not sure if this is an example of horrid luck or poor operational security during recruiting. The Barzinis murdered the Luca on night 1 [I think this was luck, but ask Rabbit] and the Made on Night 3 [recruiting backfire?] and then they helped to lynch the Don on day 4. Whether happenstance of circumstance, the Corleones were gutted and sent off before they got to play. I think pevergreen’s reveal during his lynching and GH’s subsequent posthumous reveal were to have a significant impact on the final outcome. Failing to secure this posthumous stuff was my fault – never assume.

Note: at the end of day 4, I was looking at a healthy Barzini family and only 1 solo survivor of BOTH other families! With Prole still getting sniped at over her N1 escape, I thought it could be over almost immediately!

Barzini

Prole and Reenk are relatively passive posters, which ended up suiting them nicely in their roles. As a team they managed to recruit Xiahou, Hagen, Alex, and Pindar – and to secure the services of all 4 relatively early in the game. This was quite powerful, giving them 2-3 kill teams per night session. When they really got rolling, they nearly reversed the problems of Day Four by rapidly piling up the kills. Many of this family have expressed their problems with GH’s reveal, ascribing part of their eventual defeat to it. This has some truth, but the real problem was their targeting of the other mafia families. By happenstance or planning, 6 of their 10 kills were mafia and 1 of the other 4 was a Wise Guy. Add in the Tataglia killing of Barzini’s Rabbit, and we have the sad fact that the mafia killed just as many of its own as the townies. This was the primary source of their defeat. Had more of the killings been of townies, the Tataglia’s might have stayed a threat or the Corleones been able to hunt a bit, but the Barzinis were still the strong ones. They pulled the trigger too early on their fellow Mafiosi.

The Wolf

Sasaki’s solo role was a potential boon to all three families. Unfortunately, the only one who had a sense of trust for him out of all of the starting 9 was Hankerchief – who was murdered almost immediately. Ultimately, Sasaki did want to betray everyone and be capo for himself, but none of the families used his abilities to aid them in the early recruiting/hunting phases. Having a chance to murder while not appearing guilty would have been useful later on, when this evidence was uncovered by the detectives working with the townie group. Had I been doing it, I’d have used him through night 4 or so and then arranged Sasaki’s long walk off a short pier. I think the “favor” thing worried folks too much. He could, at best, rack up 1 a night, so the Wolf wasn’t an immediate threat – but he was treated that way.


Thoughts for future games.

Tighten up the rules on Screenies, Reveals, and Posthumous play. Not being crystal clear on all of these issues hurt my game.

Redesign detective role. Of the old-style detectives, GH has them set up best. If I am going to use them differently, they need tweaking. I’m currently thinking of investigation points, added to targets cumulatively throughout the game. At certain thresholds, this investigation yields certain results.

Make the war between mafia a little harder. Something to encourage them to hold off on a mafia war from the outset and make them willing to try it only if they’re willing to run certain risks.

Make any attack a potential success…or failure…using an attack points v defense points system. [not sure here]

Change the post-mortem role announcements. Not sure if they were too fast, too complete or both.

Feel free to add your own thoughts and suggestions. I will review and use them to make our return to Fatlington even more fun.

THANKS AGAIN ALL FOR A WONDERFUL GAME!

[Orb]

I think if you removed the option of quoting from your pms (ultimate irony, I got the wiseguy PM of AggonyDuck), we wouldn't have the issues with the pro-townie rules. If they can't identify each other without fail, then they wouldn't have created such a secure detective force.

[Don Corleone]

Having been relatively active in the targetting discussions, even before I joined in the killing, we Barzinis never thought we were killing other families off. We were trying to kill townies. We just didn't have a clear picture on who that was. I agree, the best way to play Cappo, from the mafia side is to

1) Recruit heavily in the first 2 days.
2) Destroy the remaining town, as best as you can. They're you're strongest enemy.
3) Try to play the other 2 families off of each other until 2 is accomplished. Then balanced killings on each family to keep your own family in power until the other 2 submit.

In ways you can't begin to understand, GH's reveal really sank us (i'm not angry anymore, I'm trying to explain).

If I had been able to further ingratiate myself to Luigi and Redleg, it would have been a fatal flaw. There was a time, right before I left, that I think Red was thinking either Luigi or I was crooked, but not both. If I didn't have to go ass over tea-kettle to save Prole, he might have decided to trust me with the identity of the FBI agent, or allow me info on who a few of the true townies actually were (information we Barzinis were desparate for, our kills were essentially random).

What's more, if I had been able to stay clean, I would never have feared the FBI agent (I would have welcomed having him investegate me!) and I wouldn't have had to push Sasaki to poison the well. In doing that, Sasaki got Redleg to commit totally to wiping up the floor with him. I don't think anybody could have possibly doubted that Redleg was 110% behind the town at that point, something prior to Saturday night, I don't think all the townies and certainly the other families were convinced of.

Again, Redleg, I'm sorry about that. Don't be mad at Sasaki, I pushed him to do it. I never thought anybody would ever take him seriously, I was trying to 'poison the well', as I said, before you could get Cowhead to publicly reveal. I knew you were warming up to bring him out, and once he did, we Barzinis were sunk. Sasaki did try to play fair and was trying desparately to get a living player to do the reveal. I talked him into using it himself, because time was running out.

[Stig]

We were trying to kill townies.

Aye that's what I thought.
I had contact with Stranger and Luigi when I was killed, at first I thought Stranger might have killed me, but he was clear innocent, I never really thought Luigi could have killed me as he was clearly being the good guy imo.
I was mostlikely just a random kill by the mafia, like this:
"eena meena mina mo, mmm let's kill that guy"
"Who is it?"
"Stig"
"mmmm sounds pretty random to me, let's kill him, he's not on our side so no big loss"

[Pannonian]

A third approach is that applied by Pannonian – heavy direct pressure applied to suspects including suicide pacts. This, by the way, is a powerful if somewhat brutal tactic. The essential fact of any mafia game is that the townies outnumber the bad guys. The townies win only if the town wins and should be willing to absorb casualties in achieving the objective. This is an important point. The drawback here is that this also increases the attrition rate for the town, reducing the overall time available to find the Mafiosi. If you have a relatively short list of suspicious targets, however, it is a brutally effective move. In Capo, Pannonian tried to apply this tactic just a hint late. Targeting Prole would have been a quick townie win if he’d pushed it a day earlier – she was the sole Don and her “I’m not gonna kill myself argument” never quite answered Pannonian’s reasoning. However, with new Dons getting spawned, I think there are too many potential targets to make this a regular tactic. Don’t underestimate this approach’s power in certain situations though.

I devised this tactic from the dual-lynching of Kage and Sasaki in one of the games, both of whom were claiming to be the detective and that the other was mafia. I refined this to make it even more profitable for the town, so instead of a detective being sacrificed for a mafioso, a plain old townie was used instead.

However, shortly after introducing it, I regretted it. I didn't mind voiding myself from the game, as my later suicide showed. I didn't think it was a bad offer for the town, as HughTower suggested. What I didn't like was just how good the offer was for the town. If the town can reduce the list of suspects to just a few, what's to stop them from challenging each of these suspects with such a dual suicide pact? It will almost certainly be profitable for the town, since the fact that the game is still continuing means townies still outnumber the mafia, and a 1 for 1 exchange is more than good enough for a town win. What's even worse is that this fundament applies to all Mafia games, not just this. The logic of the rules means townies should be willing to submit to this attrition, while the mafia who are outnumbered will be smoked out because they can't afford to get involved, while their refusal highlights their situation. In short, there is no good defence for the mafia against this tactic.

Suicide pacts like that I suggested are much too powerful a tool for the town. Future Mafia games will have to find a way of negating them.

[HughTower]

It was a bad offer for the town in the context you suggested, which was for just one dual suicide to clear your name, since you had no reasonable evidence for your suspicions. Proletariat, although obviously guilty in hindsight, was picked by you because of an earlier confusion caused by her name beginning with P.

Applied as you state here, then your logic is correct, but then it wouldn't be a game anymore. I actually think a valid response to a similar demand would be to refuse on the grounds that it would ruin the game for everyone - Mafia & town included.

[Orb]

Or to just say, I'm a townie too, we can lose two of us. A townie would consider it bad for their own side to accept.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think the mafia's main mistake (mine included) was not doing enough reconnaisance work early on. I identified a number of townies, but was then unwilling to get them killed because they believed in my innocence. I used my investigation abilities to find townies, I believe I recommended the killing of Kommodus.

[Pindar]

Who exactly was it who killed me?

Me.

[Papewaio]

It will almost certainly be profitable for the town, since the fact that the game is still continuing means townies still outnumber the mafia, and a 1 for 1 exchange is more than good enough for a town win. What's even worse is that this fundament applies to all Mafia games, not just this. The logic of the rules means townies should be willing to submit to this attrition, while the mafia who are outnumbered will be smoked out because they can't afford to get involved, while their refusal highlights their situation. In short, there is no good defence for the mafia against this tactic.

Exchange is only good if you know it is a Mafia. Since at the start of the game more then 50% of the town is townies... then you have a larger chance of killing another townie then a mafia. 2 townies down is not good. Also when the mafia outnumbers the townies you have a better chance of getting a mafia, but again they can afford it and if you get another townie it is worse again.

Not quite, you have to be pretty certain the other guy is Mafia... if it is another townie you have just knocked off 2 for nothing, and two of the most loyal.
On the subject of townie kill groups, I think it might've been an interesting idea to only allow them with approval from an existing family. Having townies able to get together on their own and kill enemies gives the town too much power imo. I dont think the town is supposed to be able to actively kill their enemies- they're supposed to use lynches.

The kill groups made investigation results a grey area... are they wiseguys who are townies or are they mafia?

Also it made be suspicious of Redleg... I thought he was a mafia pretending to be a townie because of the townie kill groups... I could never be sure if the number killed the night before was purely mafia or some of the townies who had figured out what had happened.

And I thought that I might be a target of such a killing if I was mistakenly thought to be mafia by one of my fellow townies by my lack of posting... so I always read the thread after the weekend wondering if my fellow townies had attacked me thinking I was a mafia agent...