Capo de Tutti Capi [Concluded]

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Also, the rules say nothing about Beirut being unlynchable, they only say he can't be killed. In the past the director position has been lynchable.

I think we need clarification on this point. It would seem a bit odd if he could be lynched, seeing as he runs the lynchings.

[Motep]

Sorry, got you confused with Proletariat.

A...somewhat...easy mistake...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Enough writing styles can be easely spotted. Some never type caps, some always use abbreviations.
This went through Andres, which mostlikely means one of the members is either Dutch or Belgian.

...well... you may say so if thats what you truely believe...bit I is not particlular y sold an different wrting stilyse they are too easy to how will we say FAKe

[Proletariat]

Vote: CountArach for confusing me with a guy.

C'mon, just because our names begin with p. His name isn't even capitalised! Confusing me with Pannonian, maybe... hrmph

[pevergreen]

I declare a vote on everyone who uses "Pevergreen" its "pevergreen"

To all of you.

[CountArach]

Vote: CountArach for confusing me with a guy.

C'mon, just because our names begin with p. His name isn't even capitalised! Confusing me with Pannonian, maybe... hrmph

HEHE

My Bad

[Zalmoxis]

There are so many people in the game, that the thread is a bit hard to keep up to date with, but I haven't found any convincing arguments, so..

Vote: Abstain

[Redleg]

As Redleg walks to the meeting place of the vigilance committee he ponders on the information that is known, and what can be discerned from the rumors of the towns people.

GeneralHankerchief had been murdered in his sleep with no-one coming forth that witnessed the event. Two others had attempts on their lives, but escaped unharmed. A rumor is being circulated that a foreign element is attempting to recruit members into the mafia, and in order to be enlisted into the mafia one must attempt to murder one of the listed individuals Banquo's Ghost, Doc_Bean or Proletariat, Was the attempt on Proletariat a misstep by an individual desiring to be recruited into the Mafia, was it an attempt by someone desiring to settle an even older score and hide it behind the current trouble, or was it just a warning to the intended victim?

Rumors abound about certain individuals, and the possibility that they are mafia because of the note left behind by the murdered victim. What must be determined is how much of the victim's information is valid and what is speculation.

Who are the wolves wearing sheep clothing? To many rumors and not enough information.

Vote: Abstain for now.

[pevergreen]

But, to enter the "maffia", others must kill me, or a number of other people.

I would be concerned about those who cant prove that they are who they say they are...i fear them.

[TevashSzat]

Wow, i finally get home, get on the comp and see in just 24 hours there is 200 more posts and its just the first round. Read over everything in like half and hour but still confused :( and by the way, how could you guys not notice andres wasn't in the game?

Vote: Abstain

[Csargo]

Simple really. There are 55+ players are we supposed to remember them all. This game to have a lot of players and I don't see the townies pulling out a victory because there are way too many posts to go through and it'de probably take a good while just to go through all the posts in the next say two rounds there'll probably be around 650-750 posts. I'm sorry to say it, but I highly doubt a townie victory in this game.

I think Seamus should shed some light on this Andres thing cause I don't think it's a fair thing to let happen.

[Kommodus]

Guess I should get a vote in...

Vote: Kralizec

GH's argument is, IMO, the best lead we have so far.

[Major Robert Dump]

Am curious about Ichigos co-conspirators in the failed hit on Proleteriat. Just because someone conspired doesnt mean they were actually capable, such as a Don pretending to be a townie in a townie vigilante group and then simply not sending in the PM so the hit fails. The potential for buggery here is endless, and the failed hit could have involved townies, wiseguys and even mafia.

Since you asked to be lynched and are busy in real life I vote: Ichigo

rogue vigilante groups are as big of a danger to the town as the scumbag mafia.

[Redleg]

Simple really. There are 55+ players are we supposed to remember them all. This game to have a lot of players and I don't see the townies pulling out a victory because there are way too many posts to go through and it'de probably take a good while just to go through all the posts in the next say two rounds there'll probably be around 650-750 posts. I'm sorry to say it, but I highly doubt a townie victory in this game.

I think Seamus should shed some light on this Andres thing cause I don't think it's a fair thing to let happen

I think your looking at it in the wrong way. The note is an obvious attempt at recruitment, and because it has been publicly disclosed, the individual/individuals who directly posted it, could find themselves an obvious target of retribution by the mafia.

Now others have analysis the message for who might have written it. So no need to address that benefit of the message.

So what might be a valid consideration is the use of a non-game patsy to send the message to the game players. A question of rules is does the game allow for NPC to be used as a Patsy to hide the identity of the individual who wants to recruit for the mafia?

However I find that the message provides far more clues, and even possible misdirection’s to create more discussion around the events. For instance the townies have several puzzles to solve, and with the help of the assigned investigators in the game we can hopefully rapidly solve a few of them. For instance why in the letter sent to you was Banquo's Ghost, Doc_Bean or Proletariat the assigned targets, and why was Beirut, ByzantineKnight, Cowhead418, General Hankerchief, Hepcat, HughTower, Ignoramus, Kommodus, Kralizec, Pevergreen, Redleg, Reenk Roink, Sasaki Kojiro, Sir Moody, The Stranger, Ultrawar or Zalmoxis. Listed as individuals you may not conspire with or target as a victim?

Then the letter that Proletariat posted stated the intended targets are; Banquo's Ghost, Pevergreen, or Sigurd Fafnesbane and her list of non-conspirators and not victims had these names, Beirut, ByzantineKnight, Cowhead418, Doc_Bean, Hepcat, HughTower, Ichigo, Ignoramus, Kommodus, Kralizec, Redleg, Reenk Roink, Sasaki Kojiro, Sir Moody, The Stranger, Ultrawar or Zalmoxis.

Now to make myself a target of the mafia – since normally I should expect the mafia to strike because I too received the same message as Proletariat and yourself. The intended targets in my message were Ichigo, General Handkerchief or Sigurd Fafnesbane and my non-conspirators and non-victims were Beirut, Byzantine Knight, Cowhead418, Doc_Bean, Hepcat, HughTower, Ignoramus, Kommodus, Kralizec, Pevergreen, Proletariat, Reenk Roink, Sasaki Kojiro, Sir Moody, The Stranger, Ultrawar or Zalmoxis. Now all that needs to be done is to compare the names from each note that was sent. Which would require others to either send them to one party or post them here. So what we have is the following names were listed as targets on three letters. Banquo’s Ghost, Doc Bean, Proletariat, Pevergreen, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Ichigo, and General Handkerchief of those names General Handkerchief is deceased, and Proletariat escaped attack. Since Sasaki Kojiro is not included in the list as a target only as a non-consipator, we have an unknown status about him also. However since Proletariat also received a note we can rule her out as the writer of the message.

Now to the non-conspirator list. One can develop a similar pattern, the number is how many times the name appears.

Beirut -3
Byzantine Knight –3
Cowhead –3
Doc Bean – 2 and as target
Hepcat – 3
Hughtower – 3
Ichigo – received letter, listed as target, listed as non-conspirator
Ignoramus – 3
Kommandus – 3
Kralizec – 3
Pevergreen – 3
Proletariat – received letter, listed as target, listed as non-conspirator,
attempt made
Reenk Roink – 3
Sasaki Kojiro – 3 and attempt made
Sir Moody - 3
The Stranger - 3
Ultrawar - 3
Zalmoxis - 3

Now take and compare the target list to non-cospirator list

Banquo's Ghost - not on list
Doc Bean - on list
Proletariat - on list
Pevergreen - on list
Sigurd Fafnesbane - not on list
Ichigo - on list
General Handkerchief - not on list (deceased)

Now all that needs to be done is to make some conclusions. For instance since Sasaki was not on the list we can assume that on one of the listed names included him. I can also assume that like myself, others were sent the letter in an attempt to recruit them into the mafia, to create distrust within the town, to create a list that when voting to lynch people that the mafia has now supplied a list of names for the people to lynch. This tactic could work very well if the published names are taken to be mafia or wiseguys from the un-informed. For instance General Handercheif also claimed in his after death post that he was informed the following people were mafia.

Reenk Roink - on list
Redleg - on list
Beirut - on list
Stig

Now compare those names to the list. What pattern does one see in this. Then add the analysis of the writing.

Then you have the following quote from Stig

Vote: some Dutch speaker (being Doc_Bean, Dutch Guy, Kralizec, Moros, Stig, The Stranger)
It has to be someone active in the Frontroom.
That means Dutch Guy and Krazilec are gone imo.
That leaves Doc, Moros (aka Gertgregoor), Stranger and myself
I know I didn't do it, so that leaves 3
Stranger is Dutch and Andres Belgian. Moros wasn't active if I'm correct, s

Edit from the names listed here

Dutch Guy - not on list
Krazilec - on list
Doc Bean - on list
Moras (aka Gertgeroor) - not on list
The Stranger - on list
Stig - not on list.

Also in General Handkercheif post he also provides other names and a few claims.

Kagemusha - is claimed to be a wiseguy
Pannonian - is claimed to have known GH was a doctor
Caius Flaminius - might have been told by Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane - claimed by GH to be a townie kill group

Now taking the list provided by another and only using the names pointed out by him as possiblities for writting the note

Dutch Guy D
Peasant Phil F
Stig D
The Stranger D

Along with the statement of Stig, Andres, Doc_Bean, The Stranger are big buddies

Reach a conclusion based upon the information available.

Was it unfair? Only in the sense that the sender did not use an in game patsy. But the information is now there, and can not be undone.

[Proletariat]

And hey, whoever wrote that email, it came off more condescending than it had any wooing effect (if you even were actually trying to recruit through Andres).

'When you’ve completed your mission, we just might have a career opening for you.'

Oh you just might?!?! Woohoo!! Oh please please please lemme in! Just made me wanna lynch the mafia that much more

[Major Robert Dump]

I want to think that it was sent out by mafia, with the non-conspirators being people who could cause the plan to not work by joining the kill group then snowballing it (per the example i gave 2 posts ago). this is what I want to think.

But....that was round one. There is no role in the game that could have compiled such a guilty/not guilty list in round one, and getting a list like that from all the PMs floating around between people in round one day one is too far fetched for me to believe.

I sent random "feeler" emails to a few people in hopes I could find some common ground, but either they don't trust me or they say something that spooked me into breaking communication. Based on the small amounts of (possibly unworthy) information I recieved, it would take several people doing what I did and working together to compile a list like that.



I think it was sent by a band of wiseguys who are looking to start their own family. As it stands, each wiseguy needs several kills to become a made, and we've only had one successful kill so far which could have been by a Luca, a band of wiseguys or townies. At this point, theres no way the group of underthugs have made it to mademen, and doing such is going to take 5 turns or more before they can become a real organized threat of mademan rather than wiseguys. In other words, that letter was nothing more than something to send the whole town into a panic, to confuse, to garble, to create more distrust and -- most importantly for the wiseguys looking to organize their own family -- the letter was sent to buy them some time.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry, but,
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Kralizec]

Oh really?

It's interesting, because a standout word in that PM was "maffia." With two F's.

Now, a quick search for "maffia" brings some interesting results.

.............
Mafia III



Mafia II

~~~~~~~~~

Those were the only games that Kralizec played. I believe he is Dutch, as is Andres.

LYNCH

GH, those games were moths ago. Before the gameroom was even created. YOu're saying it was me because of 2 spelling mistakes I made last year, when any Dutch speaking guy could type like that

I don't even know Andres very well and he wouldn't have been my first choice if I had to resort to somethign like that. And I wouldn't be so stupid to pick a Dutch or Flemish guy wich would make myself suspicious

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sorry, but,
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

because?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Also, could we get a vote count?

[Lord Winter]

I think the dutch witchhunt we've gotten into is a red hearing, most likley planted by the mafioso. We've seen how effective they were in Mafia V, why not use them now? Under this logic it would be logical to vote for Ichigo, but he said he was going to commit sucidie. That and the fact that I have little time leads me to:
Vote: Abstain (Courteously)

[ByzantineKnight]

About that Dutch/Flemish Witchhunt, it does not necessarily have to be anyone Dutch or Flemish, it could very well be any non-native english speaker, we forgot the "mispelling theory" that could have been the case...

I don't know who I beleve should be linched so...
Vote: Abstain

ByzantineKnight

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

because?

There is just a strange sense that I have that inspires me to think you may be mafia or pro-mafia. I may be wrong though, so please show me mercy, since I'm a reasonably new player.

[Ituralde]

First I'd like to congratulate Seamus for hosting ths superb game, that has already become a Mafia classic, in my eyes, not least for the AndrestheCunning bandwagon. Hilarious!

Now let's see what transpired. I may repeat somethings mentioned by others, but with so many posts I guess it can't hurt to repeat some stuff lest it gets missed.
Sasaki was attacked by several individuals and then saved by three people, leading to the conclusion that a Townie group attacked and another Townie group defended him.
Proletariat on the other hand was saved by one individual. I don't understand where the clues for a small kill group come into play.

Now Ichigos reveal seems pretty genuine to me and I'm inclined to beleive him, given the other evidence we have gotten from other people receiving a recruiting message. Although I respect the effort Redleg has put into analyzing the people mentioned in that PM I think it has gone beyond us to control them anymore. With the information available in this thread anyone can take AndrestheCunnings original PM and just insert all the names he likes. Also the Dutch/Flemish-witchhunt is leading us nowhere. Have you considered that AndrestheCunning could really have written the PM and just gotten instructions to its contents: Give those three names as targets, don't let those guys be lynched and add some yadda-yadda about Mafia recruiting.
We should keep the things mentioned in mind but don't read too much into it please.

Then comes GHs reveal, who is obviously pissed at getting killed so early. While I can understand his sentiments I'm not really buying his reveal. So he's claiming to be doctor but then posts a PM from a townie which he has accquired somehow? Now, if I were doctor I would post my doctor PM to prove this. Currently I don't think GH is really helping the town. His claims of forming a townie group may be correct, but all in all I think he was Mafia and no tries to confuse the town by throwing names around.
Just remember that with several Mafia families, nobody that is killed can be seen as innocent. Everyone is suspicious.

Well that covers most of the happenings so far. With so many people floating around a lynching shouldn't hurt the town too much.

Vote: Omanes Alexandrapolites

His reason for voting Sasaki is just ridiculous and I don't see him contributing.

[HughTower]

Nice analysis by Redleg, & succinct summation by Ituralde. Personally, I don't find the 'maffia' mispelling & idiosyncratic language (as analysed by louis) a red herring at all, but think it rings more or less true. I think the use of an outside figure to send the recruitment PM is brilliant, and should be considered completely valid. I also think that a lynching would help things, given the size of the field & the information we'll learn in few day's time about them. My shortlist is then (in no particular order):

Proletariat (for reasons I've given earlier that she was protected, maybe by a Luca)
Moros (for the Flemish thing)
Reenk Roink (for voting for himself to be lynched)

[Andres]

Speaking of the devil

Just passing by to say how much fun I have had so far reading all your theories

Guess I'll have to change my name in "AndresTheBastard" after this.

Andres isn't new. He's also Dutch if that helps any.

Kill Ichigo. Calling me Dutch. GAH!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Mistake over:
Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Abstain

I really don't know who to vote for, I feel that Sasaki is dangerous, yet there is no definitive proof, so I henceforth vote for nobody in particular.

[ByzantineKnight]

Proletariat (for reasons I've given earlier that she was protected, maybe by a Luca)

Oh yah, I had forgotten about that, I don't think I agree with CrazedRabbit about it being a "insufficent members" attempted kill...

If it was a Insufficent Member attempted kill then it would have been more like "She cried out and her attackers seeing that the townspeople were coming to her aid and they were not powerful enough to withstand the tide of newcomers; fled" or something like that (or Seamus might not even have mentioned the attack).

If it was a doctor/surgeon save it would have said the doctor managed to heal her wounds or the like.

It cannot be a self-save, thus I think, by elimination, that it must have been a Luca save. Which coincidentaly could have had that write-up.

Vote: Proletariat
(No offence)

ByzantineKnight

Edit: I'm not quite sure I trust Ichigo either, but I'll let that go for now.

[doc_bean]

My god, this game is going to take over my life if people keep posting this much.

Okay: first Andres, he is indeed Flemish, not Dutch and posts a lot in the TYOLT, as do a lot of people playing here, including Drisos, Stig, TheStranger, me and quite a few others pop up occasionally. So this would point to one of us Dutch speakers, especially with the 'maffia' mistake. Then again it might be a set up.
Andres is also quite an active greeter in the Entrance hall and plays PBM games I believe, and as mentioned before, he shouldn't be unknown to Backroomers.

Second: the names in the PM. Someone seems to be out for my blood, I showed up as a possible target on most of the PMs sent. I find it odd that Stig would still accuse me of sending them anyway. The fact that so many people got mentioned, and different people got mentioned might indicate that the person who actually made them enjoys chaos. For some reason TheStranger seems like someone who would enjoy something like this. Then again, I'd also see Sasaki pulling a stunt like this. Heck, even I appreciate a stunt like this (not that I would have done it, the A_Friend fiasco makes me think twice about pulling stunts, though perhaps that gave some people here an idea ?)

Third: Why are Townies going around killing people ??? Are those involved that desperate to become mafiosi ? Do the honourable thing and stay with the town folks, crime doesn't pay.

Last (Seamus please listen): Can we get a list of everyone involved in the game and the number of votes they've gotten ? And possibly an extension of the voting time ? There are so many people playing along, a lot of them in different time zones that it so much happens 'over night'. Dutch_Guy got lynched in Graffiti Mafia without getting the chance of defending himself and I suspect it would be even easier here to start a bandwagon against someone while they're asleep or at work.

[Stig]

I find it odd that Stig would still accuse me of sending them anyway.

tbh I didn't think of that, but then it could be bluffing.

Unvote: Moros
Vote: Proletariat

reasons Hughtower mentioned

----------

btw it will be difficult to keep track of all this voting, you have to read back about 5 pages to see what everyone votes.
Wouldn't it be better that everyone who votes ends it's post with a spoiler.
In it will be a list of all the players in game and the amount of votes:
like this

I post:
fakevote: John

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

john 1
jack
pete 2
mary
hugh 1

The next player then posts:
fakevote: jack

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

john 1
jack 1
pete 2
mary
hugh 1

etc etc