Capo de Tutti Capi [Concluded]

[Pannonian]

I'm sorry, but I read this as MRD being a made, Hanky being the Luca (which we know), & you the Don. Why else would MRD say this, and the only people who know others' roles at the start of the game are scum?

Surely this is a monumental cock-up on your behalf?

I read it as MRD being a wise guy looking to form a kill squad at the start of the game. I don't know where he got the information from about GH being a doctor, but evidently it was as accurate as his information that I was a wise guy/made/whatever. I was puzzled by this question out of the blue (see Ichigo's post for how bare the townie PM is), hence I asked him where on earth he got the leads from, whether other roles come with more information than a bare description of what they do. Can other wise guys confirm this or otherwise?

[pevergreen]

Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.

That to me is proof that you are a don.
Unvote; Vote: Pannonian

When i copy stuff seamus sends me, i dont always post it word for word. i cant spell the last name in his name so i always use "Seamus"

Check all of my posts. Anywere, its always "Seamus"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

pevergreen - 11 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 5 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington, Moros, ,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 1 (Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
Pannonian - 1 (pevergreen)

Bah! Looks like i am to die.

[Orb]

Vote:Pevergreen

Because I feel like it.

[HughTower]

I read it as MRD being a wise guy looking to form a kill squad at the start of the game. I don't know where he got the information from about GH being a doctor, but evidently it was as accurate as his information that I was a wise guy/made/whatever. I was puzzled by this question out of the blue (see Ichigo's post for how bare the townie PM is), hence I asked him where on earth he got the leads from, whether other roles come with more information than a bare description of what they do. Can other wise guys confirm this or otherwise?

MRD says ' ....tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate...'. This is not what a wiseguy would say, it is what a Made would to his Don. He would only say this to you if he already knew who were. Hanky is going to spend his turns protecting you, because that is his primary role as a Luca. It is important for them to recruit a wiseguy to kill, because a Made can't do it on his own, & the Luca is protecting the Don. So, these are the 4 possible explanations:

1. You've either screwed up, my friend, & you are the Don.
2. MRD mis-read his PM from Seamus & thought his Don was you (maybe a pevergreen or Pannionian similar name mix-up?)
3. This PM is not authentic - but, why you would fake it, I have no idea?
4. Seamus told MRD that you were his Don, but sent you a townie PM, & cocked-up his otherwise immaculately organised game

On to pevergreen,

Personally, I don't believe this next quote or think it is relevant.

When i copy stuff seamus sends me, i dont always post it word for word. i cant spell the last name in his name so i always use "Seamus"

If I was PMing to save my skin, I'd be extra careful about making it look real. Also, Seamus used N3 in his post to me, not "Night 3", & I don't like the "shows as" phrase in the message. It's too clumsy for Seamus.

In my view, pevergreen is lying & should be lynched. Re: Pannionian, explanation 1 or 2 are most likely. Does anyone else have information that might lead them to cast suspicion on him (or MRD)?

[Moros]

Unvote: adresthecunning
vote: pevergreen

I don't think I need to elaborate.

[The Stranger]

Pevergreen is going down, today... Pannonian will be investigated.. BUT!

If he is really a don hell be shown as Innocent... so...

He really wants me dead... Why? Because I'm a danger to the town? I've never been... and if I acted like a danger before I righted my mistake.

The reason he wants me dead because if there is still a slightest chance that I can turn out to be a don, I'm of a rival gang and I must die. He doesnt wants to kill me because he thinks i'm protected by a luca... So he tries to get me lynched....

ALSO I LIKE TO CALL DOC_BEAN TO THE STAND.

Please tell me what role you have? Are you Pro Town? Are you a Townie, Wise Guy or a Mafia?

Be honest or you'll be DEAD!

[The Stranger]

pevergreen - 13 (Kagemusha,Crazed Rabbit,AndresTheCunning, Sasaki, Xiahou, Papewaio, Orb, Moros, Destroyer of Hope, Stranger, Pindar, Ironside, HughTower)
AndresTheCunning - 4 ( Luigi VI di Fatlington,Warluster,CountArach, BKS)
ByzantineKnight - 1 (doc_bean)
Abstain - 5 (Alexander, ByzantineKnight, Destroyer of Hope, Kommodus, Ituralde)
Sasaki - 1 (Pannonian)
Reenk Roink - 1 (Reenk Roink)
No Lynch - 1 (Caius)
Pannonian - 1 (pevergreen)

[Stig]

Tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate. I can't kill anyone until we get another wiseguy/made. I suggest Hanky spend his turns protecting you.

That to me is proof that you are a don.

Well in that case you can (note: can) be wrong ... Wise Guys can gang up with Made's too

just so you know

[The Stranger]

But he is a made I think. Because GH protected him.

[HughTower]

Well in that case you can (note: can) be wrong ... Wise Guys can gang up with Made's too

just so you know

We do know that.

The point is, Stig, that MRD is asking him who to recruit or investigate, that he needs someone else to make a killing team (either a wiseguy or another Made), & he already know that Hanky is a Luca. The Don, who MRD, rightly or wrongly, thinks is Pannionian, is who is been asked for orders.

The question is whose mistake is this evidence, Pannionian for accidentally revealing it, or, MRD, for mis-reading his PMs.

[Pannonian]

MRD says ' ....tell me who you want me to recruit/investigate...'. This is not what a wiseguy would say, it is what a Made would to his Don. He would only say this to you if he already knew who were. Hanky is going to spend his turns protecting you, because that is his primary role as a Luca. It is important for them to recruit a wiseguy to kill, because a Made can't do it on his own, & the Luca is protecting the Don. So, these are the 4 possible explanations:

1. You've either screwed up, my friend, & you are the Don.
2. MRD mis-read his PM from Seamus & thought his Don was you (maybe a pevergreen or Pannionian similar name mix-up?)
3. This PM is not authentic - but, why you would fake it, I have no idea?
4. Seamus told MRD that you were his Don, but sent you a townie PM, & cocked-up his otherwise immaculately organised game

I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here. But look at the substance of it, and you'll see that I asked him where he got the information fom without revealing anything about myself (which was the only sensible thing to do at the start of the game). After some probing, he eventually admits he's a wise guy, and doesn't know what everyone else except for me, which judging by his language I assume he thought was a fellow wise guy, and GH, whom he thought was a doctor.

There was a mix-up earlier in the game, when someone mixed up the names of Proletariat and pevergreen to her ire, drawing the remark that Pannonian wouldn't have been as bad as at least our names both begin with capital letters. If MRD did indeed mix us up, then I invite the Lady to join me in a double suicide. If I'm a townie as I say, this wouldn't matter much as I share in a town victory whether or not I survive, and there's a chance of taking a mafioso with me. If I'm a Don as you say, this will much reduce my gang's chances of winning. Just let Proletariat agree to the deal in this thread and kill herself, and I will do likewise the following round.

[The Stranger]

Why the following round?

[Pannonian]

Why the following round?

How else am I going to verify she's killed herself?

[The Stranger]

You can BOTH do it this round... If she does it this round... how is she going to be assured you do it next...?

[Pannonian]

You can BOTH do it this round... If she does it this round... how is she going to be assured you do it next...?

If I make this offer and she publicly accepts it and carries out her end of it, but I do not, my word will be worthless from then on and I might as well be dead for the purposes of this game.

You're thinking of survival as the point of this game. It's not. The aim is to ensure your group wins, whether or not you personally survive. Survival means you still have an active stake in the game, and can vote. But survival for survival's sake is not the point, if you harm your side's cause in the process. If you remain alive but no-one will believe you any more, you can no longer direct your cause and you might as well be dead. In that vein, in games iwth 1 detective and 2 mafia, it is considered a worthwhile gambit for the detective to reveal as soon as he gets the identity of one mafioso, even though this guarantees his murder the following round, as that action favours the town more than holding on to the information and risking being murdered before getting the chance to find the other mafioso. In the same vein Reenk sacrificed himself in Mafia V to ease the passage for Seamus, although that worked a bit too well and backfired.

I can't coordinate the action with Prole because there are no provisions for it in the game. We send in our orders, and we read about the results the following morning. Therefore we'll have to do so separately. As the more active player, I have more to lose by fulfilling my part of the bargain but being left by the other, so I invite her to do so first and I'll follow.

[HughTower]

I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here. But look at the substance of it, and you'll see that I asked him where he got the information fom without revealing anything about myself (which was the only sensible thing to do at the start of the game). After some probing, he eventually admits he's a wise guy, and doesn't know what everyone else except for me, which judging by his language I assume he thought was a fellow wise guy, and GH, whom he thought was a doctor.

There was a mix-up earlier in the game, when someone mixed up the names of Proletariat and pevergreen to her ire, drawing the remark that Pannonian wouldn't have been as bad as at least our names both begin with capital letters. If MRD did indeed mix us up, then I invite the Lady to join me in a double suicide. If I'm a townie as I say, this wouldn't matter much as I share in a town victory whether or not I survive, and there's a chance of taking a mafioso with me. If I'm a Don as you say, this will much reduce my gang's chances of winning. Just let Proletariat agree to the deal in this thread and kill herself, and I will do likewise the following round.

It's a nice offer, but suspiciously impractical. Prole has been very inactive in this game so far (4 days since last post). There is no good reason why you have to do it together - if you're innocent, suicide yourself now, & be done with it, so the town can move on.

If what you say is true, then, of course, MRD realised his error, changed his tune & called GH a doctor - anyone would. In his first message, it is categoric - he's not roleplaying, he's addressing you as his Don, & naming GH as Luca. Full stop (or "period", for our chums over the pond).

If it is MRD's mistake initially, it is your mistake in making that reveal (or not understanding fully what it meant), & therefore drastic action is needed by yourself.

[The Stranger]

Agreed.

[Pannonian]

It's a nice offer, but suspiciously impractical. Prole has been very inactive in this game so far (4 days since last post). There is no good reason why you have to do it together - if you're innocent, suicide yourself now, & be done with it, so the town can move on.

It wasn't me who came up with that explanation of mistaken identity. You suggested pevergreen, who's going to die anyway, while I recall Prole from earlier in this game.

If what you say is true, then, of course, MRD realised his error, changed his tune & called GH a doctor - anyone would. In his first message, it is categoric - he's not roleplaying, he's addressing you as his Don, & naming GH as Luca. Full stop (or "period", for our chums over the pond).

If it is MRD's mistake initially, it is your mistake in making that reveal (or not understanding fully what it meant), & therefore drastic action is needed by yourself.

Erm, if GH is my Luca, why did he accuse me of fishing for information? My reveal was to show that MRD was most likely a wise guy, as Redleg was wondering what he was. I quoted my subsequent conversation with GH so Redleg could have some more information with which to shed light on GH's reveal.

[The Stranger]

Is this fase about to end? Because... It's getting a bit boring now...

[pevergreen]

Yeah, hurry up and lynch me. Theres no way i can convince 13 odd people.

Sad way to lose a detective.

On the plus side, im trying to put some of my own material into my death.

My Final Speech.

Should be fun! I might get to wear a cloak! Like Medivh in Warcraft. Or the Emperor in Star Wars.

Happy Town Win..in the unlikely case you do win.

Just for fun:
ToS
FoS
HoS
All at Pannonian.

[AggonyDuck]

I have no idea why MRD wrote his PM in that way, except perhaps that as a first time player he was trying to get into the mood of things, not knowing that plain argumentativeness is the preferred style here.

MRD is not a first time player...

[Pannonian]

MRD is not a first time player...

What's he played before? I've only been in Mafia III and V, and I don't remember him.