Bogging down?

[Derfasciti]

I've tried playing both England, France and Spain on hard or VH difficulties. Each time it seems when I'm finally getting big (about 15+ provinces) the entire world makes massive war on me.

Currently as the Spanish, I've been backstabbed by England when we were allied, and Milan, Sicily (which owns most of Italy now and is a superpower with Milan) and on-off Hungary all at war with me. The papacy, I believe is even at war with me. Granted, this is on hard and I think I'm still excommunicated but It seems that no matter what I offer, it's never good enough to settle a ceasefire even when I've totally crushed several of their full-stack armies.

Anyone else experience this? I find it hard to continue simply because all the fighting, while I love battles, is getting pretty annoying...

[Flavius Gonzo]

In my experiences with the game, there are definitely diplomatic things you can do to prevent everyone from going to war with you.

First, on H/VH relations with factions are normalized to drop a bit every turn. So you need a diplomat handing out gifts frequently to keep relations up with your allies. (And I think having allies makes a big difference in preventing AI factions from attacking you -- you'll want to score 1-2 good alliances early in the game -- factions that border the factions on your border are best.) Gifting 100 florin tribute for 10 turns works really well (and costs as much as the upkeep on a unit of peasants) and so do cash gifts of 400-500, less for higher level diplomats, more for low level.

Keep relations in the Amiable to Perfect range will, at a minimum, stave off an attack for a while, but in some circumstances the AI will attack no matter what. (For example, I think the Hungarians will attack Constantinople no matter what, and the Danes will attack Antwerp early in the game. It might just have to do with the fact that some factions are more militant than others.)

Also, the AI seems to attack a lot based on "opportunity". So if it notices that a city on it's borders is weakly garrisoned, it generally will attack it. If you don't want to wage a war, you need larger garrisons in your border cities. (You can also use this to your advantage to tempt an enemy into a fight.)

Finally, you're still often put in a situation where you are waging multiple wars on multiple fronts. The dilemna is that if you expand too quickly and over-emphasize production, you'll screw up your economy and fall behind in the tech tree. In this situations, I usually switch from fighting for possession of new regions to fighting to exterminate an opponent -- I send a dreaded general to sack/exterminate their cities, destroy their buildings, and allow the city to revolt (then often sack again, for more cash!) If you plan to do this, it's useful to have a vision for what cities you intend to possess through the game's end, as you don't want to raze a city that you'll need later to build gunpowder troops.

[econ21]

All Total War games have a tendency to get bogged down in repeated battles, IMO. At least you can't sue CA under trade descriptions.

In M2TW, I've noticed what you mention and at least it is challenging. I suspect once you get past the 15 settlements into the 20s, you may find a tipping point when things get easier. (Sacking cities is amazing for the bank balance, although awful for your reputation).

I'd also recommend play-by-mail games with other players. Sharing some of the burden with other players and the social/story/role-playing aspects keep you motivated. Pop down to the Throne Room forum if you are interested.

[Mega Dux Bob]

The papacy, I believe is even at war with me. Granted, this is on hard and I think I'm still excommunicated but It seems that no matter what I offer, it's never good enough to settle a ceasefire even when I've totally crushed several of their full-stack armies..

There is your problem; getting excommunicated does that to you.

[Dave1984]

The papacy, I believe is even at war with me. Granted, this is on hard and I think I'm still excommunicated but It seems that no matter what I offer, it's never good enough to settle a ceasefire even when I've totally crushed several of their full-stack armies.

.

You could get rid of your King and see how the papacy responds to you then...?

[dismal]

Meh, being at war with 4 or 5 people at a time seems like a given in TW. Fortunately, it needn't be that much of a hindrance. Just be sure to keep moving forward. Sackings go a long way toward paying for your empire, and eventually you can thrive on internal trade.

The answer to economic malaise is: attack a city. You win, you're on your way forward. Even if you lose, dead troops pay for themselves in 3 turns or so by avoided maintenance.

Excomms can be avoided, it seems. When the pope says "stop attacking", I stop. I have yet to be excommed despite running my Pope meter down to 1 or 2.

During the warning period, you can still continue to position armies right outside the enemy's cities. I like to line up multiple cities to attack the turn the pope warning expires if possible.

[Joshwa]

what i find is that the AI seems to be more likely to attack you if you are at war with someone else, which makes sense, since you are less likely to respond in force if you are currently embroiled in a conflict on the other side of your empire. Added to this, the AI seems exponentially more likely to attack the more factions you are at war with, so if you remain at war with any factions for any length of time, you will end up at war with all your neighbours as they take a swipe at you

[PureFodder]

My main problem with the AI deciding to attack is when it decides to declare war for no apparent reason and with no apparent gain. As Hungary both the HRE and Turkey declared war by blockading one of my ports for one turn then leaving.

No armies come rushing in, no naval assaults, no continued blockade strategy. They just decide to void our alliance and trade agreement for fun.

Makes it easier to decide which way to advance though.

[baron_Leo]

My answer to that: use mods. Shabawangy's mod and Lands to Conquer by Lusted are cool. You are not getting always attacked and your alliances will be alliances as long you don't have some territorial disputes with your aliied.

[Scotsmanforlife]

Playing as the HRE i'm usually being attacked on multiple fronts. And to be honest i love it, makes the game very challenging. Taking cities from rivals and then having them take it back. So far i've managed to stay alive, though it has gotten tricky at times.

[pevergreen]

Solution: Shaba Wangy Diplomacy mod. They actually keep their alliances! (if they like you, no borders etc)

[Von Nanega]

Where is th Shaba Wangy mod?

[Lusted]

At TWc. I personally do not use it anymore in my LTC mod as alliances seem to never be broken in it. I instead use the Ultimate AI mod by GrandViz which i think is much better.

[Kraggenmor]

As Hungary both the HRE and Turkey declared war by blockading one of my ports for one turn then leaving.

For which their council of nobles awarded them with three units of peasants in their capital.

[ShadesPanther]

For which their council of nobles awarded them with three units of peasants in their capital.

I hate those missions
"Go blockade someone you just agreed trade rights with and are now making lots of money with them. We will make it worth you while by giving you a whole 500 gold"

I just ignore them

[gardibolt]

As several have pointed out, excommunication is an explicit invitation by the Pope to have everyone attack you to get into his good graces. So not only does it give them a free rein to try to seize your territories, but it also increases their papal standing. You need to get out of that status ASAP or yes you will be attacked by the entire Catholic world. Unfortunately, the only ways I know of are 1) kill the Pope or 2) have your faction leader die. Fighting the Pope's armies emphatically will not convince him to lift the ban of excommunication; if anything it makes it worse, unless you manage to catch him heading a stack of troops and kill him. So you're left with assassins (dubious) or sending your faction leader off to conquer the Mongols and Timurids barehanded.

[The Stranger]

your power definitly increases your diplomatic power... theyll accept even offers that are bad for them. Ive been bogged down many times... i once had 6 full stacks wandering round my capitol... i blocked the bosphorus so they laid siege to nicaea... i defeated them after a few turns and they came begging me for a ceasefire, you can really ask them a lot of money than :P... so one or 2 major victories will usually give you a good peace for which theyll pay you a good load of money when you do it good

[zulukiller]

As several have pointed out, excommunication is an explicit invitation by the Pope to have everyone attack you to get into his good graces. So not only does it give them a free rein to try to seize your territories, but it also increases their papal standing. You need to get out of that status ASAP or yes you will be attacked by the entire Catholic world. Unfortunately, the only ways I know of are 1) kill the Pope or 2) have your faction leader die. Fighting the Pope's armies emphatically will not convince him to lift the ban of excommunication; if anything it makes it worse, unless you manage to catch him heading a stack of troops and kill him. So you're left with assassins (dubious) or sending your faction leader off to conquer the Mongols and Timurids barehanded.

You can bribe the pope aswell to get reconsilled, i think the most you need to pay him is 10000 and thats only if your standing with him is really bad.

[TevashSzat]

What also might be happening is that one faction that you are at war with decides to ally with 6 other factions that never really liked you too much in the first place so they will attack you. Now it is nearly impossibe to get a ceasfire since all of your enemies will be allied and they won't want to abandon their allies. This happened to me when I was playing as Venice. The HRE signed an alliance with Hungary, Byzantine, Turks, Sicily, French, Spain, Scots, and Poland. All of them declared war on me except for the scots who cant really attack me. I have been destroying their alliance one faction at a time. Have killed Hungary, Byzantine, and Sicily with Turks almost dead

[Von Nanega]

You can bribe the pope aswell to get reconsilled, i think the most you need to pay him is 10000 and thats only if your standing with him is really bad.

I know 10000 is not a fixed number. I paid 16200 tribute for two turns for reconciliation. I was dubious about emptying savings but
1. I got reconciliation.
2. It put my Popeometer all the way to the top instantly when I had no crosses to start with.