Spartans

[CrownOfSwords]

Ive played several campaigns now and feel that I have the game pretty felt out, so today I looked through all the factions in the custom battle screen and noticed the Greeks have the Spartans which they did not in the previous versions so I started a Greek campaign. Well the year is 250 BC I have about a full stack of Spartans seperated into various cities. I want to play a defensive campaign for once and try to just conquer Greek territory and hold it the entire game or to the best of my ability, I also disabled fog of war so I could see what the AI does.
But to the point of this thread, I am not sure which Spartans you are trying to represent Sparta was not at nearly its former glory at this point in time, yet the description of the Spartan hoplites sound as a description of the unit from a far previous time, so this is my problem if you are trying to give a weakened version of the unit then I have no problem with what they are now, but if you are representing the unit as they used to be they are not powerful enough. I believe this could be easily solved by giving them their 2 hitpoints back which in my opinion is a good representation of a Spartan warrior: able to continue fighting despite being greviously wounded. I have found this unit too often taking severe casaulties from a unit they should not have I lost nearly 40 of the 120 to a 1v1 fight against peltastoi. Maybe they should also have the "Frighten nearby infantry" trait. What is everyone else's opinion on this subject?

[Caratacos]

I agree with the frighten nearby infantry trait. Just the spartan name would make brave soldiers weary and weary soldiers wimper (imho).

[Watchman]

They'd gotten stomped flat head on several times already during the pre-Hellenic period. Circumstances (eg. some pretty nasty casualties among the homoioi) forced them to kind of lower the standards if they wanted to put armies of any decent size to field and by the by carry out some much-needed social reforms.

By the EB timeframe they might still have had a bit of a reputation and an impressive espirit de corps, but their heydays were long past. Having to fight something more than the part-time sunday-soldier hoplites of the old days probably also had an effect.

If I've understood correctly their real role in EB is that of elite "classical" hoplites (ie. shock infantry) who pretty much have to be killed to the last as their stellar morale score keeps them fighting on in some pretty ghastly circumstances.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

But should you implement a type I goverment (spartan agoge) those Spartans would (or rather should) be as good as their ancestors.

[fallen851]

The aura of the Spartans pretty much ended when Thebes laid the smackdown on them.

At least if I remember correctly.

[Watchman]

Thebans among others. There was apparently one instance when a Thessalian cavalry force bloodily routed an entire Spartan expeditionary force back to their ships with zero casualties (claimed, anyway) - presumably a surprise assault.

But should you implement a type I goverment (spartan agoge) those Spartans would (or rather should) be as good as their ancestors.

I think you should read the relevant description in a bit greater depth. Anyway, back in the olden days the Spartans' chief advantage was always psychological - they were long the only true standing, professional army in the land of sunday soldier militias. Obviously that gave them a major edge in confidence in a straight clash (indeed the opposing phalanx often broke and ran even before contact, although this was by no means all that unusual in hoplite clashes), and a string of victories naturally grew them a fearsome reputation which only added to the intimidation effect.

But that was then. Several bloody routs sort of take the luster off such reputations.