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  1. #1

    Default From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    I thought this was a very interesting article that shows how MLK would respond to the War on Iraq.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011201745.html
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    By Colbert I. King
    Saturday, January 13, 2007; Page A19

    Forty years ago, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., whom the nation will honor on Monday, took to the pulpit of Riverside Church in New York City at a meeting organized by Clergy and Laymen Concerned About Vietnam. The date was April 4, 1967, one year before his assassination in Memphis.

    King said he was in New York because his conscience had left him no choice. In his speech, "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence," King declared: "That time has come for us in relation to Vietnam."



    » Colbert I. King | Speaking of Vietnam forty years ago at Riverside Church in New York City, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. declared: 'a time comes when silence is betrayal.'


    King acknowledged the reluctance of some people to speak out on Vietnam -- the same hesitation some Americans may have today over voicing their concerns about Iraq. People, he explained, "do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war."

    But King concluded that too much was at stake. He and the other religious and lay leaders were moved by what the conflict in Vietnam was doing to the United States. Vietnam, King said, was consuming American troops and money like "some demonic, destructive suction tube" even as that war was laying waste to the Vietnamese people and to America's standing in the world.

    And on this Martin Luther King Jr. Day, in 2007?

    More than 3,000 Americans have been killed in Iraq, while 22,000 others have been wounded. Billions of dollars that could have been invested here at home have been spent there, a lot of it wasted, some of it stolen, plenty of it unaccounted for. And Iraqis in Baghdad, who cowered for decades under a brutal dictator, have been living in the midst of violence almost continuously since Saddam Hussein was deposed.

    "We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them" read a bumper sticker in Washington this week.

    Now enter George W. Bush -- the president who got America into this debacle through a series of misjudgments that would make Alfred E. Neuman look brilliant. This week Bush announced plans to plop down thousands of additional troops in the middle of a sectarian war and to shell out billions of additional dollars to pacify a war-weary Iraqi population that, truth be told, wants America gone.

    Why trust this administration?

    Contrary to what Bush and his allies said:


    · There were no weapons of mass destruction poised to strike America and her allies.

    · A quick defeat of Hussein did not lead to chocolates and flowers in the streets of Baghdad.

    · An American invasion did not produce a unified, nonsectarian and Western-oriented Iraq or spark a desire for U.S.-style governance throughout the Arab world.

    · De-Baathification and the imposition of a market economy at gunpoint did not usher in a period of tranquility or the flowering of capitalism.

    The Bush administration struck first because it had the power to strike and the arrogance to think, foolishly, that it could win and dominate the conquered on the cheap.

    King spoke in '67 about "the Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them." Witness the Bush team in Iraq.

    Today they have a bloodbath on their hands to show for their labors, and Iran is on the verge of getting an Iraqi neighbor beyond its wildest dreams.

    Yet even now, neoconservatives inside and outside of government are counseling Bush to remain in Iraq for years to prevent the Shiite-dominated regime from collapsing. They also are encouraging him to prepare for battle with Iran and Syria if those countries start meddling in Iraq -- as if they aren't now. With what exactly and for how long we are supposed to do battle with Tehran and Damascus, the militaristic neocon noncombatants in Washington don't say. But then again, they have a tolerance for risk and cost that exceeds that of those who actually do the fighting and dying.

    Forty years ago at Riverside Church, people of conscience declared that "a time comes when silence is betrayal." They went beyond using their voices and votes when they agreed to break their silence. They responded, as King had urged, by matching their words with actions. "We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. Every man of humane convictions must decide on the protest that best suits his convictions, but we must all protest," King preached that day.

    Yes, this is a different time and a different world. Global terrorism is a sobering reality. And America is on the right side in that war. To not fight back is tantamount to indulging a death wish.

    But the first blow in Iraq, which was not a battleground for terrorism, was struck by Bush. He now, stubbornly and in the face of legitimate opposition, proposes to make matters worse.

    Remember King and the words: "A time comes when silence is betrayal."

  2. #2

    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Iraq is not Vietnam.

    MLK was a plagiarist and a philanderer.

    People who attempt to speak for the dead lack the deference to have their own words respected.


  3. #3
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Added to which Vietnam was, unlike Iraq, a completely justifiable war and the American abandonment of the South Vietnamesse should be a great cause of shame to anyone who considers that war "wrong." The problem in Vietnam was the failure to fight a war and to instead attept a Police Action.

    Iraq is the opposite of Vietnam in every way.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Iraq is not Vietnam.

    Close enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
    Added to which Vietnam was, unlike Iraq, a completely justifiable war
    In that case it stands to reason that MLK would have spoken out even harder against the War on Iraq than he did regarding Vietnam.

  5. #5

    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Added to which Vietnam was, unlike Iraq, a completely justifiable war
    If it was completely justifiable then why did they have to lie to get it approved ?

  6. #6
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    I suggest those who wonder what MLK would do in the modern post 2000 world to watch the Boondocks episode dealing with it.

    "Return of the King" was brilliant. Ever seen MLK got dissed by a Rush Limbaugh-like figure, called traitor, and became a public pariah because he preached tolerance right after 9/11? Downright chilling on how true that could've been and who we are this day and age.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 01-14-2007 at 04:56.

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    If it was completely justifiable then why did they have to lie to get it approved ?
    I have no idea, probably because no one wanted to stop the NVA from completing their invasion.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Don't believe all the civil rights crap they teach you at school.
    Yeah, and don't believe all the crap they tell you at martinlutherking.org either ... Or at Stormfront for that matter.

    What sort of man are you saying that he really was? Please go deeper, I don't think there's more wrong with him than with any other human.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  9. #9

    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Navaros
    Close enough.
    Only in the eyes of those with an agenda.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    MLK was [...] a philanderer.
    This would be relevant ... how?

  11. #11

    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    This would be relevant ... how?
    When his name is envoked to try to add weight to an argument, its important to note what kind of man he really was.


    This somehow lessens what the man did?
    Yes. The man envoked religion and morals, yet did not live up to them himself.

    Almost all great rhetorical works plagiarise others, it is neccessary to evoke meaning through speach to use other's works as examples.
    What about their college dissertations? Do all great men plagiarize those?

    Don't believe all the civil rights crap they teach you at school.

  12. #12
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Only in the eyes of those with an agenda.
    Like you're one to talk.
    "Pot, meet kettle."
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Iraq is not Vietnam.

    MLK was a plagiarist and a philanderer.

    People who attempt to speak for the dead lack the deference to have their own words respected.

    This somehow lessens what the man did? He was a great leader, and a great rhetorician. Almost all great rhetorical works plagiarise others, it is neccessary to evoke meaning through speach to use other's works as examples.

    He was the moses of his time, leading the blacks from second class citizens to full citizens. He did it through peaceful means and did not use violence like Malcom X. If only he could be alive today.
    Last edited by BigTex; 01-14-2007 at 09:06.
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    Humbled Father Member Duke of Gloucester's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Dr. King, a Reminder on Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager

    People who attempt to speak for the dead lack the deference to have their own words respected.

    The article does not purport to speak for MLK. It quotes what he said about Vietnam and draws parallels with the situation in Iraq. The views expressed are clearly those of the author and he does not seek to put words in MLK's mouth although you might be forgiven for thinking he does from Navros introduction. Given that Martin Luther King day approaches, it seems a perfectly legitimate piece to me.

    Iraq is not Vietnam.
    The author does enough to draw parallels and point out differences between Iraq and Vietnam to make this comment redundant.

    MLK was a plagiarist and a philanderer.
    The fact that the man was not perfect can be used to undermine him, but should it?
    We all learn from experience. Unfortunately we don't all learn as much as we should.

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