New Unit - What is it?

[spirit_of_rob]

unless you want to sing soprano however i wouldnt recommend going to fast hehe

[Zaknafien]

heh. very true..and granted i was like 11 at the time.. hey maybe those chaps are eunuchs.

[MiniMe]

eunuchs

Slightly offtopic (sorry):
I didn't found any picture of armoured elephant, however the fact they did exist was mentioned somewhere and that they had copper rings protecting their feet.
Could somebody, please, post their picture of non-Wikipedia source here (don't trust it too much)

[MeinPanzer]

eunuchs

Slightly offtopic (sorry):
I didn't found any picture of armoured elephant, however the fact they did exist was mentioned somewhere and that they had copper rings protecting their feet.
Could somebody, please, post their picture of non-Wikipedia source here (don't trust it too much)

1 Maccabees 43:

And Eleazar, called Avaran, saw that one of the beasts was equipped with royal armor. It was taller than all the others, and he supposed that the king was upon it.

His assumption "that the king was upon it" was, of course, entirely unfounded, because Seleukid kings never rode elephants.

There is also a fragment of a metal figurine, the provenance and date of which I have never been able to find, though it is definitely Hellenistic, which shows an armoured elephant. This is what all reconstructions of armoured elephants are invariably based on. The metal hoops are based on some terracotta figurines showing a Seleukid elephant with a Galatian warrior in its trunk and which were made to commemorate the victory of Antiochus I in the "Elephant Battle." In fact, what are interpreted as metal leg defences may simply be the artist's interpretation of the folds in an elephant's skin, since similar hoops are modelled around the neck as well.

[QwertyMIDX]

Well being Greek as fast east as the Baktrian or Indo-Greek kingdoms were during the hieght of said kingdoms meant you were of a fairly high class. We also know that greeks rode elephant so...

In fact the Baktrians wouldn't have had normal greek akontistai, they would have employed easterners in that role.

[Eduorius]

The elephants of the Sucessor had armor. In the book of John Warry about ancient warfare he says that the Ptolemies used armor for their African elephants so that they could have a chance against the bigger Indian elephants used by the Seleucids at Raphia.

What I am not sure its about the mahout (the elephant rider) using armor. I have always read that the elephant panicked when he lost his riders, but I am not sure how easy elephants lost their riders. You understand me?

Without protection they could easy be killed by a well placed javaline or arrow, but illustrations I have found dont show them with much protection. I hope people dont get angry but if it is for me, while having so many elephants and factions that use them, I vote for having elephants without armored mahouts and some elephants with armoured mahouts.

http://members.tripod.com/joseph_ber.../hydaspes4.gif

http://www.hobbybunker.com/images/products/2025a1.jpg

http://www.ancientbattles.com/indian...dian_EL_01.jpg

As you see its also a matter of interpretation as in the illustrations above there are 2 Indian elephants with unarmored riders, but there is one illustration that has a rider with a linothorax and a Greek helmet.

[MeinPanzer]

The elephants of the Sucessor had armor. In the book of John Warry about ancient warfare he says that the Ptolemies used armor for their African elephants so that they could have a chance against the bigger Indian elephants used by the Seleucids at Raphia.

Actually, none of the elephants at Raphia were armoured, and there's no evidence at all for Ptolemaic elephants wearing armour.

What I am not sure its about the mahout (the elephant rider) using armor. I have always read that the elephant panicked when he lost his riders, but I am not sure how easy elephants lost their riders. You understand me?

Without protection they could easy be killed by a well placed javaline or arrow, but illustrations I have found dont show them with much protection. I hope people dont get angry but if it is for me, while having so many elephants and factions that use them, I vote for having elephants without armored mahouts and some elephants with armoured mahouts.

http://members.tripod.com/joseph_ber.../hydaspes4.gif

http://www.hobbybunker.com/images/products/2025a1.jpg

http://www.ancientbattles.com/indian...dian_EL_01.jpg

As you see its also a matter of interpretation as in the illustrations above there are 2 Indian elephants with unarmored riders, but there is one illustration that has a rider with a linothorax and a Greek helmet.

As I posted earlier in this thread, the most armour a mahout is ever shown with is a helmet. It is very clear that they never wore heavy armour like cuirasses according to the archaeological evidence, and any reconstructions with armoured mahouts are pure speculation.

[MeinPanzer]

Well being Greek as fast east as the Baktrian or Indo-Greek kingdoms were during the hieght of said kingdoms meant you were of a fairly high class. We also know that greeks rode elephant so...

Not necessarily. Some Greeks were higher class, but not all. Remember that many of the Greeks who ended up in Baktria were simply mercenaries, which meant that they would not have been particularly wealthy unless given land and made into katoikai.

In fact the Baktrians wouldn't have had normal greek akontistai, they would have employed easterners in that role.

Probably for some, but again, many poor mercenaries ended up in Baktria, so it's not impossible that Greeks operated as lighter-armed soldiers.

[QwertyMIDX]

Not necessarily. Some Greeks were higher class, but not all. Remember that many of the Greeks who ended up in Baktria were simply mercenaries, which meant that they would not have been particularly wealthy unless given land and made into katoikai.

I didn't mean they had been nobles before getting there, I meant that that in these kingdoms Greeks formed the upper-classes while the lower classes tended to be made up of natives. Baktria wasn't a Greek state, it was a state run by a Greek elite.