making money in medieval II

[Armenia_Byzantium]

its really hard to make money in medieval II, relatively much easier to make money with RTW.

I have played 4 campaigns now and each one i have suffered because of money no matter what i do to improve trade rights and stuff, neighboring factions are just non trust worthy, they can change their stance from neutral/allies to enemies for no appearnt reason

[Snoil The Mighty]

Are you using merchants much? Also, you'll need some ports and a few cities (London, Antioch, Constantinople, etc) are big prizes to have so go after em with gusto. My Russian campaign currently I have merchies camped on the north Italy textiles, Viennese silver mines and silks in Constantinople, they are making over 4k per turn. I also nabbed every port in the Baltic sea, all are cities now-not as nice as Constantinople but they are soon to follow. Turn coastal castles into cities is commonly a good idea though specific strategic concerns can trump this on occaision. Don't leave deadweight troops laying around, especially pricey ones like mercs. Disband or use em. Use militia-only garrisons for order. Not knights. Militia get free upkeep in cities, while other troops get free upkeep in castles (to a certain number of units in each case). Farming is also money. Keep em happy, tax em high. Don't leave generals with poor (or worse!) management traits in cities. This can be really really murderous in terms of eco-drain. Take it from someone who found out the hard way in this case.! LOL Follow council of noble missions when they pay in florins as much as you can. Trade agreements are helpful. Use diplo's to extort early florins for initial economic expansion early game. Sell trade rights, map info and even alliances to anyone who will listen. Use those florins to upgrade ports/roads/markets/farms. Use crusades/jihads when and if you can, big army can built with cheap but good units and with no upkeep. Nice boosters there! Hmm, I'm sure a few things slipped under the radar but don't overarm your military early on. Train or hire troops you will use and use soon. Otherwise they are a drain. Im sure I missed some things but those basics will for the most part keep you from going broke

[lobo76]

convert more castles into cities.

send an army of merchants to Timbuku, followed by a REAL army to take over the city when you are able. Bring a general, but forts beside the resource, and put 20 merchants on the one with most returns. (this is regardless of which faction you play. I had over 14k worth per turn from merchants alone in my Turk campaign)

castles only need 1-3 units to garrison unless it is on the border.

[supadodo]

First of, don't go berserk spending on units and advanced buildings early on. Don't be too keen to tech up coz u won't have any money to buy those shiny knights anyway. Militias and cheap archers are good enough early game.

Focus on ports and its trade expansions. Ports give the most trade income early on. Next get market buildings but just stop until u reach the 4th tiered one coz you they are just too expensive early on. Roads give lowest benefits but since they're cheap,quick 2 build and give movement bonus, just get them.

Conquer cities. They are cash cows and the larger the better. Sack them all for maximum benefits. Nobody gives a sh1t for chivalry. Try to get off-shore or island cities coz they get lots of income from sea-trade.

Heres a side note. Changing time span can largely affect income. On 2 years/turn, income is less. On 0.5, income is absurd. I am now playing 0.5 yr/turn and now in turn 500 sumthing. I have 5000000+ florins. I mainly focused on trade early on.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Are you using merchants much? Also, you'll need some ports and a few cities (London, Antioch, Constantinople, etc) are big prizes to have so go after em with gusto. My Russian campaign currently I have merchies camped on the north Italy textiles, Viennese silver mines and silks in Constantinople, they are making over 4k per turn. I also nabbed every port in the Baltic sea, all are cities now-not as nice as Constantinople but they are soon to follow. Turn coastal castles into cities is commonly a good idea though specific strategic concerns can trump this on occaision. Don't leave deadweight troops laying around, especially pricey ones like mercs. Disband or use em. Use militia-only garrisons for order. Not knights. Militia get free upkeep in cities, while other troops get free upkeep in castles (to a certain number of units in each case). Farming is also money. Keep em happy, tax em high. Don't leave generals with poor (or worse!) management traits in cities. This can be really really murderous in terms of eco-drain. Take it from someone who found out the hard way in this case.! LOL Follow council of noble missions when they pay in florins as much as you can. Trade agreements are helpful. Use diplo's to extort early florins for initial economic expansion early game. Sell trade rights, map info and even alliances to anyone who will listen. Use those florins to upgrade ports/roads/markets/farms. Use crusades/jihads when and if you can, big army can built with cheap but good units and with no upkeep. Nice boosters there! Hmm, I'm sure a few things slipped under the radar but don't overarm your military early on. Train or hire troops you will use and use soon. Otherwise they are a drain. Im sure I missed some things but those basics will for the most part keep you from going broke

Im basically doing almost all of what you just mentioned and it aint working, my neighbors are quickly turning against me for no appearent reason, im currently playing as byzantine empire. religion is an issue for me as you can understand because of its geography i have jerusalem and acre and i tried to sell them to catheloc nations who can afford to buy them especially during the crusade period, but the bastards dont wanna buy it of me!

[Snoil The Mighty]

Im basically doing almost all of what you just mentioned and it aint working, my neighbors are quickly turning against me for no appearent reason, im currently playing as byzantine empire. religion is an issue for me as you can understand because of its geography i have jerusalem and acre and i tried to sell them to catheloc nations who can afford to buy them especially during the crusade period, but the bastards dont wanna buy it of me!

As the Byz, expand and sack everything Rebel in sight ASAP. The Rus can be counted on for a good ally, others not so much. If at all. I went the get-the-balkans-first route as Byz. Once you take Venice, florins will not be an issue. Gather a full stack of your best available troops and two generals and get there. The sooner you do, the richer you will be. Destroy the Venice faction and take their lands whilst doing as you have been. The Hungarians were priority 1B in my case. They aren't rich to start, and you don't want them getting that way, but prioritize Venice. If the Turks come a-lookin about, use as little force as necessary to keep em at bay and try diplomacy to buy some time. If that doesn't work, hopefully siege-and-sack in the balkans gets you enough florins to keep em bogged down til Venice is yours. Don't forget to grab Irkalion too. It'll keep em from producing ships to gank your port income.

Edit-Also as the ERE, your merchants are loaded for bear. Crank em out as fast as you can. Those nearby silks will help you train up some viscious financial juggernauts.

[Skott]

Also try to avoid using mercenaries as much as possible. In the early game they are better than many starting units but are a huge financial drain. If you do use them disband them as soon as the battle is over. Their upkeep is higher than normal faction units of same type.

[Derfasciti]

Hmmm I don't have much trouble. I don't even use merchants. What I do is just build money making buildings as much as possible and make sure that when the opportunity comes up, to get trade agreements.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Hmmm I don't have much trouble. I don't even use merchants. What I do is just build money making buildings as much as possible and make sure that when the opportunity comes up, to get trade agreements.

i have set timescale = 0.5 that i think will definitely help me.

i will start a new campaign and see how it goes

in my last campaign, unlike my previous ones, i have concentrated more on establshing trade rights and buidling ports. but still i couldnt make lot of cash.

i miss days of RTW!

[Armenia_Byzantium]

First of, don't go berserk spending on units and advanced buildings early on. Don't be too keen to tech up coz u won't have any money to buy those shiny knights anyway. Militias and cheap archers are good enough early game.

Focus on ports and its trade expansions. Ports give the most trade income early on. Next get market buildings but just stop until u reach the 4th tiered one coz you they are just too expensive early on. Roads give lowest benefits but since they're cheap,quick 2 build and give movement bonus, just get them.

Conquer cities. They are cash cows and the larger the better. Sack them all for maximum benefits. Nobody gives a sh1t for chivalry. Try to get off-shore or island cities coz they get lots of income from sea-trade.

Heres a side note. Changing time span can largely affect income. On 2 years/turn, income is less. On 0.5, income is absurd. I am now playing 0.5 yr/turn and now in turn 500 sumthing. I have 5000000+ florins. I mainly focused on trade early on.

I had to cheat my way some times and use shell command add_money to get some cash as im getting bankrupt after the first 36 turns

[supadodo]

Well I guess you must be playing Byzantium from your name. Your capital is a money machine, build up on its trade capabilities and just leave settlements to the westward and northward alone for the time. Then go bum rush the turks who are crap early game. Leave Hungary and Venice alone or better yet, ally them and charge them every stinking cent they have for map info and whatnots. For quick cash sack Iconium and rush to Antioch. Wallah now you have 2 xtra ATMs at your disposal. lands of ANtioch and southward settlements are very lucrative but then again, Popes never seem to lay of them so defenses up!!

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Well I guess you must be playing Byzantium from your name. Your capital is a money machine, build up on its trade capabilities and just leave settlements to the westward and northward alone for the time. Then go bum rush the turks who are crap early game. Leave Hungary and Venice alone or better yet, ally them and charge them every stinking cent they have for map info and whatnots. For quick cash sack Iconium and rush to Antioch. Wallah now you have 2 xtra ATMs at your disposal. lands of ANtioch and southward settlements are very lucrative but then again, Popes never seem to lay of them so defenses up!!

i try to aviod the turks alone or use them as vassals because of the mongol invasion i find my self stretched too thin in the eastern and south eastern front and that causes me problem after the first 80 turns when mongols come charging at me,

i try to head south and invade antioch, jerusalem and gaza.

Iraklion is another important settlement but that causes the ventitean to turn against me

[heroic hungarian]

merchants are great fun ,they make a few grand. but if you want the serious k you want the big income cities:londen venice paris thesolonki and the gold mine himself CONSTANOPLE

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Im finally getting somewhere now, im making approx 40k+ each turn, on my 50th turn now, timescale = 0.5 yr/turn, my military status is supreme and overall status is super aswesome as well

[Snoil The Mighty]

Im finally getting somewhere now, im making approx 40k+ each turn, on my 50th turn now, timescale = 0.5 yr/turn, my military status is supreme and overall status is super aswesome as well

Alright! Good to hear-once you're in that range florins-wise you should be able to do as you will (which is only fitting for a Roman Emperor!), although as a final caveat, try to make sure you're using the right troops in the right buildings for garrison purposes-i.e.- militia garrisons in cities. I screwed myself over in my very first MTW cmpaign by not paying attention to that lil aspect of upkeep.

[Lorenzo_H]

i have set timescale = 0.5 that i think will definitely help me.

i will start a new campaign and see how it goes

in my last campaign, unlike my previous ones, i have concentrated more on establshing trade rights and buidling ports. but still i couldnt make lot of cash.

i miss days of RTW!

You could always go back to Rome Total War...

[IrishArmenian]

The first thing I build for my settlements 99% of the time is dirt roads. Those are cheap and pay for themselves within 1 turn, giving you an underated flow of cash.
Second, I build the first level farms--Ground clearing, or something like that.
I try to build up my farms and if possible, make your way to
A) Italy
B) Holy Land
C) Consantinople
Taking those cities jumpstart your economy quite well.
After that, I build ports on coastal cities, if not, build more farms! Second Level farms on a poor harvest made Tunis crank out 687 fl. Never underestimate farms!

[Foz]

After that, I build ports on coastal cities, if not, build more farms! Second Level farms on a poor harvest made Tunis crank out 687 fl. Never underestimate farms!

Exactly. Farms are key to picking up your financial status quickly: They produce extra cash for you, and they also increase population growth which leads to more tax income. That growth also means you will be able to upgrade your walls sooner, accessing vastly superior economic options further up the tech tree. As they help tech you up faster (which few things do) I tend to make them number one priority in early game, getting the first farm upgrade first thing, and the second when I've exhausted better economic options.

[Razor1952]

One feature of both rtw and mtw2 is to use the city detail panel.

Proposing a new building( say a port) you will see what benefit it will bring as a half-coloured icon corresponding to the type of building. Try different buildings and see their effect . If you have many cities and can build only a few things then you can make a much better assessment of what and where to build.

Also consider demolishing extra buildings like blacksmiths in cities well away from the front. Make sure you demolish any building not going to make it when you convert castles to cities. Knock over unnecessary guilds in cities captured(who wants every city with a thieves guild?).

Moove your capital city to place where your empire will get max benefit(usually near its center) use to financial button to gauge this will taxes on automanagement.

The key to $'s is trade income and taxes, growing your cities is more important in mtw2 than in rtw . Chivalrous generals will help here as they have a direct benefit on growth.


Also I'd like to correct the impression about roads. Highways often (but not always) bring much increased trade. Also being able to hammer rebels early by rapid response troops over quick roads means a less loss of income from rebels.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

I think I should be sending all of my merchants to far away territories, they make really good money there, one of my merchants is earning 100+ florins/turn trading spices near Antoich, and has earned really good traits as well. And no other merchant can beat him, and he is only 35 yrs of age

[JCoyote]

Timbuktu and Arguin are a gold mine... literally. The Moors beat me to Timbuktu once playing as Portugal, but I managed to get it away from them as a diplomatic concession.

Merchant camps are a great trick. Having a guy cranking out 500+ a turn is nice... having 20 or more guys doing it is beautiful. Then you can take the whole show over to the new world later...

There is an agent limit on merchants based on the number of provinces you have though.

[Armenia_Byzantium]

Timbuktu and Arguin are a gold mine... literally. The Moors beat me to Timbuktu once playing as Portugal, but I managed to get it away from them as a diplomatic concession.

Merchant camps are a great trick. Having a guy cranking out 500+ a turn is nice... having 20 or more guys doing it is beautiful. Then you can take the whole show over to the new world later...

There is an agent limit on merchants based on the number of provinces you have though.

Those merchants are ATM machines!

[gardibolt]

I wouldn't go demolishing guilds without considering it carefully. There's a big penalty against ever getting such a guild or an upgrade to it if you demolish one. Of course, if you already have an HQ of that type then it makes less difference.

[Merciless_Doge]

This is a very interesting topic to me.

Did I read above that enemy ships (even without blockading) can affect your sea/port trade?

Exactly how do Rebel armies affect land trade? I notice trade caravans stopping if the Rebels are in their direct path - but other than that, trade seems to continue?

Also, does sending merchants into foreign lands lower your reputation there or earn you dislike?

[Foz]

Timbuktu and Arguin are a gold mine... literally. The Moors beat me to Timbuktu once playing as Portugal, but I managed to get it away from them as a diplomatic concession.

Merchant camps are a great trick. Having a guy cranking out 500+ a turn is nice... having 20 or more guys doing it is beautiful. Then you can take the whole show over to the new world later...

There is an agent limit on merchants based on the number of provinces you have though.

Merchant camps are just that: a trick. Clearly this is not intended behavior, and therefore shady at best. I personally would not practice such things esp in a game against the computer, as it is unable to duplicate the trick and therefore you gain an unfair advantage. The idea isn't to work at the code until you find an exploit and use it to defeat the AI, it's to defeat the AI simply due to your leadership prowess, with all else being equal. A win isn't a win if you've given yourself something the AI doesn't have, and I put practices like this on the same level as upgrading your faction's kings purse or giving yourself money via the console - it's just cheating.

As for the agent limit for merchants, you're not quite correct. It's not based on the number of provinces at all, though it may appear to be. It's actually granted by any one of the market series of buildings (banks too, but only hre, venice, and milan get those). Since most cities you capture will have at least a grain exchange, you typically notice your merchant cap go up as soon as you capture a city, so I can understand the confusion. It's worth noting that none of those buildings can be built in castles though, so castles are a liability to your merchant limit (another facet of them being economically inferior).

[General Zhukov]

Did I read above that enemy ships (even without blockading) can affect your sea/port trade?

Only blockades affect you. Then again, I haven't seen any tests that show whether enemy ships sitting on the little green "trade lines" have an effect.

Exactly how do Rebel armies affect land trade? I notice trade caravans stopping if the Rebels are in their direct path - but other than that, trade seems to continue?

I believe rebels are responsible for the small income hit labelled "devastation" on the trade panel.

Also, does sending merchants into foreign lands lower your reputation there or earn you dislike?

Nope. Likewise priests. Which is odd, since during this period it just wouldn't do to have the other God's holy men preaching their heresy in your backyard.

[JCoyote]

Sure merchant camps are a bit of an exploit. Yeah well, trade routes "weren't an exploit" in MTW, but the AI had no idea how to use them, and they made astounding amounts of money we can't even get close to now.

And if I'm going to limit myself to ONLY doing things the AI is capable of... lol... does that mean I have to fight with all militia armies and attack allies just because they are next door? Does that mean when an enemy army sallies I need to sit in one spot waiting for them to attack? Do I have to sit a diplomat next to every other city and try to bribe the army every turn?

Hell, obviously even GOING to the new world proves I'm exploiting, the AI never tries to go there...

(And, as far as things CA needs to work on, the merchant camps are at the bottom of the list for what NEEDS fixing.)

[Armenia_Byzantium]

I have noticed that rebels standing on my settlements affect land trade, and I think its the same with M2TW

[Armenia_Byzantium]

I meant from RTW, which I also noticed from M2TW

[Merciless_Doge]

I have noticed that rebels standing on my settlements affect land trade, and I think its the same with M2TW

Paul of Byz - Agreed.