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In a (belated) posting from the land of you-couldn't-make-it-up, news that, to save costs, the Parachute regiment is, err, not going to do any parachute training any more
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/nparas17.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/nparas17.xml
Originally Posted by :
Parachute training in the Army is set to be halted for four years as part of a £1 billion cost-cutting programme by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).
The proposals mean that Britain will be without a parachute-trained force for the first time since the Second World War when the Parachute Regiment was created on the orders of Winston Churchill.
Documents leaked to The Sunday Telegraph reveal that no new recruits or even serving members of the Parachute Regiment or airborne forces will be trained in military parachuting from next year until 2011
Parachute training in the Army is set to be halted for four years as part of a £1 billion cost-cutting programme by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).
The proposals mean that Britain will be without a parachute-trained force for the first time since the Second World War when the Parachute Regiment was created on the orders of Winston Churchill.
Documents leaked to The Sunday Telegraph reveal that no new recruits or even serving members of the Parachute Regiment or airborne forces will be trained in military parachuting from next year until 2011
You're just cynical. This is clearly an example of Joined-up Government (TM).
If the paras just leap straight to their deaths, the MoD won't have to answer embarrassing questions about why they have no body armour, ammunition or usable boots.
Or:
If the paras just leap straight to their deaths, the MoD won't have to answer embarrassing questions about why they have no body armour, ammunition or usable boots.
Or:
It's not as though they have any 'planes to jump from though, is it?
Maybe the money theywasted invested in helicopters that can't fly is the reason.
Maybe the money they
Originally Posted by English assassin:
In a (belated) posting from the land of you-couldn't-make-it-up, news that, to save costs, the Parachute regiment is, err, not going to do any parachute training any more
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/nparas17.xml
When's the last time we dropped troops by parachute? Didn't we discontinue it because we felt the paras were too valuable to be inserted by that method? If silence is so necessary, surely SAS would be more suited to that kind of mission than paratroopers.In a (belated) posting from the land of you-couldn't-make-it-up, news that, to save costs, the Parachute regiment is, err, not going to do any parachute training any more
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/nparas17.xml
PS. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on horsework either. We lack combat troops, they're reportedly less fit than frontline units - ergo the logical conclusion would be for them to spend less time guarding the Queen, and more time in Afghanistan.
Originally Posted by Pannonian:
PS. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on horsework either. We lack combat troops, they're reportedly less fit than frontline units - ergo the logical conclusion would be for them to spend less time guarding the Queen, and more time in Afghanistan.
To drift off-topic a moment: One of the compensations for being mildly dyslexic is mis-reading things. I first read the above as:PS. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on horsework either. We lack combat troops, they're reportedly less fit than frontline units - ergo the logical conclusion would be for them to spend less time guarding the Queen, and more time in Afghanistan.
Originally Posted by :
The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on housework either.
That'll be an image to cheer me up from now on. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on housework either.
Originally Posted by :
The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on housework either.
But those Bearskin hats are just perfect for cleaning cobwebs from the ceiling .The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on housework either.
This particually tickled me as when I was a little Army Cadet, sometimes we had to shout bang or "nagga, nagga" instead of actually firing blank rounds.
You get to sixteen, start mixing with regies and then next summer while your section is shouting themselves hoarse you load up the spare mags you nicked off them.
On a far more serious note, American Paras were used in IraqII, so it could happen and totally removing the capability is a bad idea, I assume that since they won't be jump-qualified they'll no longer be eligable for higher pay.
Saves money, doesn't it.
You get to sixteen, start mixing with regies and then next summer while your section is shouting themselves hoarse you load up the spare mags you nicked off them.
On a far more serious note, American Paras were used in IraqII, so it could happen and totally removing the capability is a bad idea, I assume that since they won't be jump-qualified they'll no longer be eligable for higher pay.
Saves money, doesn't it.
Sounding like some mad petitioner... clicky
Oh, and the Guards would be good at housework, they spend all their time polishing stuff...
Oh, and the Guards would be good at housework, they spend all their time polishing stuff...
Originally Posted by Pannonian:
When's the last time we dropped troops by parachute? Didn't we discontinue it because we felt the paras were too valuable to be inserted by that method? If silence is so necessary, surely SAS would be more suited to that kind of mission than paratroopers.
PS. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on horsework either. We lack combat troops, they're reportedly less fit than frontline units - ergo the logical conclusion would be for them to spend less time guarding the Queen, and more time in Afghanistan.
The Household Cavalry is a tank regiment and has served in recent theatres of conflict, as well as trotting up and down horse guards.When's the last time we dropped troops by parachute? Didn't we discontinue it because we felt the paras were too valuable to be inserted by that method? If silence is so necessary, surely SAS would be more suited to that kind of mission than paratroopers.
PS. The Guards shouldn't spend so much time on horsework either. We lack combat troops, they're reportedly less fit than frontline units - ergo the logical conclusion would be for them to spend less time guarding the Queen, and more time in Afghanistan.
Most major militaries have parachute regiments, and airborne forces were used to secure airfields and oilwells in Iraq and Afghanistan. To dispense of such vitally important units is complete idiocy, just typical of this government.
Originally Posted by Pannonian:
When's the last time we dropped troops by parachute? Didn't we discontinue it because we felt the paras were too valuable to be inserted by that method? If silence is so necessary, surely SAS would be more suited to that kind of mission than paratroopers.
When's the last time we dropped troops by parachute? Didn't we discontinue it because we felt the paras were too valuable to be inserted by that method? If silence is so necessary, surely SAS would be more suited to that kind of mission than paratroopers.
GAAAAAAAAAAHH!!
I was just reading in the Guardian about how overstretched the once glorious Royal Navy and Army and RAF are.
They are selling most of their ships.
They are 40% under strength in all infantry regiments.
They sold all their new Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia or some place, so they are still going to have to use Tornados, which became obsolete about 30 years ago.
They are selling most of their ships.
They are 40% under strength in all infantry regiments.
They sold all their new Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia or some place, so they are still going to have to use Tornados, which became obsolete about 30 years ago.
Originally Posted by King Henry V:
The Household Cavalry is a tank regiment and has served in recent theatres of conflict, as well as trotting up and down horse guards.
Some chap at another forum reckoned they were a notch below regular units, on those occasions when they were in the field together. He felt they spent too much time in Blighty, and not enough time seeing real action, and that extra time in the field would do them good.The Household Cavalry is a tank regiment and has served in recent theatres of conflict, as well as trotting up and down horse guards.
Originally Posted by King Henry V:
Most major militaries have parachute regiments, and airborne forces were used to secure airfields and oilwells in Iraq and Afghanistan. To dispense of such vitally important units is complete idiocy, just typical of this government.
Aren't they meant to be inserted by helicopter?Most major militaries have parachute regiments, and airborne forces were used to secure airfields and oilwells in Iraq and Afghanistan. To dispense of such vitally important units is complete idiocy, just typical of this government.
Erm, the Tornado was introduced in 1979. Which was less than 30 years ago.
Originally Posted by :
Erm, the Tornado was introduced in 1979. Which was less than 30 years ago.
Would you like to read the article diablo said he read BKS ?Erm, the Tornado was introduced in 1979. Which was less than 30 years ago.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/s...989468,00.html
Since it surprisingly doesn't say what he says it does
The British goverment must be fairly sure no major war is going to happen soon. Which I hope they are right, but if there is then alot of countries are screwed.
Originally Posted by Pannonian:
Aren't they meant to be inserted by helicopter?
My son, PFC Smith, is a US para in Iraq. He jumped out of perfectly good airplanes for training, but they're inserted these days exclusively via Blackhawk helicopter.Aren't they meant to be inserted by helicopter?
Maybe diablodelmar is thinking of the US B-45 Tornado, introduced in 1948?
Bloody shame, the Brits having to draw down/merge so much. One hopes there's a group of Sergeants Major safeguarding the record of traditions and histories of these outfits.
No such luck, we don't need to draw down and one of the reasons for the merging of regiments is to destroy local loyalties and regimental identity, in order to make it easier to shift troops between regiments.
Anyone who knows anything about a military will tell you this is a recipe for disaster, unfortunately the consultants know knothing, full stop.
Anyone who knows anything about a military will tell you this is a recipe for disaster, unfortunately the consultants know knothing, full stop.
Clinton and liberals in the U.S. tried and are continuing to try to do the same thing in the U.S....and not without success. No matter how peacable you are, there are always people who will want to attack you so you always need to be prepared. The U.S. and UK need a large and fully trained military ready at all times. Cutting money to the military is one of the dumbest things someone could do. Maybe if they cut the welfare to all the illegal aliens instead...
That's quite a different situation, though. Clinton cut military budgets because the Cold War had ended and there was thought (and not just by him) to be no immediate threat.
Originally Posted by :
That's quite a different situation, though. Clinton cut military budgets because the Cold War had ended
Yeah remember that , throw lots of money at defence so the opposition have to throw lots of money at defence , see which one runs out of money first . Then stop throwing money and claim victory . That's quite a different situation, though. Clinton cut military budgets because the Cold War had ended
Originally Posted by :
Clinton and liberals in the U.S. tried and are continuing to try to do the same thing in the U.S....and not without success.
Whereas Bush and the"conservatives are wrecking the military and throwing money down the drain .Clinton and liberals in the U.S. tried and are continuing to try to do the same thing in the U.S....and not without success.
Oh and they are very lacking in success apart from wrecking the military which wasn't one of their aims I think . Though you can never be sure with those idiots .
Airborne training is useful in today's military mostly as a rite of passage which separates the mediocre from the incompetent. This role should not be underestimated. It has also been very useful in some recent situations, though usually more for reasons of logistical efficiency than tactical effectiveness.
Oh, and one more thing, if Ethiopia has daggone paratroopers and you don't, obviously this means that you suck.
Oh, and one more thing, if Ethiopia has daggone paratroopers and you don't, obviously this means that you suck.
There is no excuse for cutting back on the military like he did. The U.S. could not put up any type defence if attacked.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
The U.S. has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN the U.S. can prosper. The U.S. has been steadily declining as a world power just as its military has.
When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. The U.S. will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
The U.S. has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN the U.S. can prosper. The U.S. has been steadily declining as a world power just as its military has.
When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. The U.S. will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
Maybe if they cut the welfare to all the illegal aliens instead...
Maybe if they cut the welfare to all the illegal aliens instead...
Or cut welfare all together. Make them join the army if they cant pay for themselves!
On topic: America needs to start looking for a new lapdog... ethiopia maybe?
Originally Posted by :
Yeah remember that , throw lots of money at defence so the opposition have to throw lots of money at defence , see which one runs out of money first . Then stop throwing money and claim victory
Slightly OT Tribes but that was more or less what the US did, and it worked. Where's the beef? Given that the alternative was global nuclear devastation, much as it pains my black, freedom-hating Euroweenie heart to say it, I think you have to call this one for the Americans, and, yes, for Ronnie. Credit where its due.Yeah remember that , throw lots of money at defence so the opposition have to throw lots of money at defence , see which one runs out of money first . Then stop throwing money and claim victory
(NB I still
) Originally Posted by :
Oh, and one more thing, if Ethiopia has daggone paratroopers and you don't, obviously this means that you suck.
Pwned by Ethiopia, what next? Lets hope they don't have a cricket team.Oh, and one more thing, if Ethiopia has daggone paratroopers and you don't, obviously this means that you suck.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
There is no excuse for cutting back on the military
Of course there is and we have heard thousands of them. There is no excuse for cutting back on the military
It doesn't mean that any of them had any logical basis to them. We went from 18 Army Divisions to around 8 (10 on paper but many lack a 3rd brigade) and reduced the National Guard (which was 65% of on paper combat strength) to around half of what it was (The Army Reserve now has no combat units). The Armored Force was reduced by more than half and the Marines were reorganised into smaller less self supporting organisations.
But why does that matter. The UK and the US are both safe and have no enemies on their borders. Everyone knows that democratic first world nations need no military. It is all a waste of money which should be given to the public and all of those needy third world countries to take them out of poverty (or transferred to Swiss Bank Accounts).
Originally Posted by Vuk:
No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves.
Yeah, quite a few of them in the US government right now.No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves.
I'd rather have the dutch play world police...
Originally Posted by Vuk:
There is no excuse for cutting back on the military like he did. The U.S. could not put up any type defence if attacked.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
The U.S. has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN the U.S. can prosper. The U.S. has been steadily declining as a world power just as its military has.
As Tribesman hinted, the main reason why Reagan increased military spending so much was to force the SU into matching them and thus bankrupting themselves. When Clinton took office, that reason didn't exist anymore.There is no excuse for cutting back on the military like he did. The U.S. could not put up any type defence if attacked.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
The U.S. has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN the U.S. can prosper. The U.S. has been steadily declining as a world power just as its military has.
In hindsight you can label it a wrong decision, you can even argue that even then it was a shortsighted thing to do- but a comparison with Blair's recent cuts doesn't hold a drop of water.
Originally Posted by :
When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. The U.S. will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
I have, but my reading on the Romans and Latin text isn't limited to RTW, but thanks anyway for the condescension. World peace is a utopian dream, the only thing you can hope (and the only thing you're really interested in) is that all violence happens far away from the US.When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. The U.S. will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
And roughly paraphrasing a wise man: it's impossible to avoid war and prepare for it simultaniously.
Getting the army up to strength would be relatively easy: cut social security significantly, and increase armed forces benefits, basically making service comparatively more attractive.
Yes, more poor people will be in the Army. So? More poor people are plumbers. it is a valid career and one that is essential, far more so than giving money to people when there are government jobs that need to be filled. Historically this was the case, and some things are always going to be true.
Although now a completely fair comparison, the SAS did start out jumpting out of planes but since that was a disaster they switched to ground veichles. Similarly if the need to keep and hold rather than distroy runways is no longer present then this might be a skill that is not going to be required in the future.
Yes, more poor people will be in the Army. So? More poor people are plumbers. it is a valid career and one that is essential, far more so than giving money to people when there are government jobs that need to be filled. Historically this was the case, and some things are always going to be true.
Although now a completely fair comparison, the SAS did start out jumpting out of planes but since that was a disaster they switched to ground veichles. Similarly if the need to keep and hold rather than distroy runways is no longer present then this might be a skill that is not going to be required in the future.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
There is no excuse for cutting back on the military like he did. Iran could not put up any type defence if attacked.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
Iran has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN Iran can prosper.
When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. Iran will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
To make a bit different perspective.There is no excuse for cutting back on the military like he did. Iran could not put up any type defence if attacked.
"Walk softly" That's ok, but you also must "Carry a big stick"!!
Iran has to be in a position where other nations will fear a war with them so much that they would never dream of attacking. THEN Iran can prosper.
When you played RTW, did you ever pay attention to those Latin proverbs? Those people weren't a bunch of dumb, inferior, cavemen, they knew what they were talking about. With the way society is structured, and our new technology, we could have world peace...but only if the world feared attacking us. No matter how peace loving you are, there are always oppurtunists seeking to enlarge their countries and make a name for themsleves. Iran will never be safe till IT makes ITSELF safe. Only by gaurding against attacks can we hope not to be attacked - not by leaving ourselves to the mercy of the world.
Say what ever leftist garble you like: It is the instruments of war that keep peace.
Now add some news in the style of "New American threats on Iran", "The American congress has reinitiated conscription" and you'll see the issues of starting to have a too large army.
There's 2 main reasons for very large armies. It's either to defend yourself from a very real threat or to invade. If people cannot see the first, then they will suspect the second reason, which will make them see that the first reason is a very good one...
Originally Posted by :
Slightly OT Tribes but that was more or less what the US did, and it worked. Where's the beef?
The beef or more correctly worn out old mutton is that once again someone comes up with ..ooo look at clinton look at liberals see what they done , while completely ignoring the fact that "conservatives" do exactly the same .Slightly OT Tribes but that was more or less what the US did, and it worked. Where's the beef?
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