Empowering the "Victim" classes. Double standards?

[Divinus Arma]

I have heard some discussion, in part because of MLKjr day, about the empowerment of so-called victims in United States culture. While there are many examples of this with the Handicapped and females, I would like to just discuss balck America at the moment.

Consider: Black Americans demand equality and cry racism at every opportunity, but yet we have "Black Entertainment Television", "Black Power", the "United Negro College Fund", the "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People", and "Equal Opportunity".


Didn't Martin Luther King Jr. envision an equal society where black Americans were an equal race, not a favored race?

Didn't Martin Luther King Jr. seek to erase divisions between us? So why do we see the self-selected "Black Leadership" creating divisions?


I believe that the existence of a "victim class" is essential to Democrat strategy in the United States. The Democrat agenda requires the existence of an underclass for the government to support, so should black Americans achieve the dream of MLKjr, the Democrats would be severely impacted.

Consider the relationship between Black leadership, Hollywood, and the Democrat elite:

Balck America today is portrayed as "tough", "strong", and "athletic". Hollywood perpetuates this myth with (a) movies and (b) music. The promotion of these mediums of entertaiment for blacks in the United States are a celebration of anti-social behavior and success through aggressive behavior (be that behavior legal or not).

Black youth in American culture views its opportunities for success as limited to athleticism, rap music, or gang violence. When black youth attempts to escape these boundaries and attain an education, they are broken down by their peer as a betrayal of the race. In other words, blacks who pursue a route other than that glorified by hollywood become ostricized as "trying to be white".

The "Black leadership" contributes to this by reinforcing the notion that blacks in America are oppressed and treated as inferiors. The truth is that "black leadership" would become irrelevant if blacks were allowed to realize their potential in this country. The argument that minorities require special representation is false. The argument that minorities are discriminated against based on skin color is also false. After all, where is the "Asian Leadership"? Asians as a minority in this country were forced into terrible servitude in the 1800s. They were virtually trapped by low pay and racial discrimination. But they had no MLKjr, and today Asians are renowned in the United states for their productivity and talent.

The success of Black Americans are discouraged unless that success came at some cost to the white majority. Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Thomas Clarence: All were hugely successfully but each receieved the scorn of the "balck leadership" and the Democratic Party. Not because they were Republicans, but because they were Black Americans who succeeded on their own without taking something away from the white majority.

The fact is that the Democratic Party requires a "victim class" and the liberal royalty uses its media influence and political spin to artificially and permanently perpetuate one.

[Vuk]

We are infected with a new form of racism today. One that favors minorities, women, and handicapped.

In an effort to find equality, we have slipped far into the opposite direction.

[BDC]

Although of course on average white people still do better...

[Goofball]

We are infected with a new form of racism today. One that favors minorities, women, and handicapped.

You know what? You may be right. But since that statement can only possibly be applied to the last few decades at most, it doesn't really bother me.

The pendulum has finally (after thousands of years of human history) swung the other way, and the previously downtrodden are getting a bit of a leg up.

Good for them.

In an effort to find equality, we have slipped far into the opposite direction.

As is always the case when a pendulum backswings, it's going to swing too far on the first pass, but what inevitably happens is the extreme on either end starts to narrow and it eventually settles comfortably in the middle.

Nothing to worry about, just sit back and relax.

[PanzerJaeger]

EDIT: Racism is not allowed. BG

[JimBob]

It has nothing to do with party. The Republicans have as much of a victim class as the Democrats. Rural whites who are often being forced to sell the farm and change jobs and/or move to the city. The Republicans then play to their fears of slipping American values. Just like the Democrats play to the fears of their victims. The whole thing is about profit. I'd take a guess that most of the elite on the respective sides of the aisle really don't hate each other. They pretend to because they get votes, they get votes they get to be Senators and raise their own pay.

So why does the Black Leadership do what it does. Power, money. People donate to their charitable organizations. They work for those organizations and get to pay themselves from those coffers.
Why does the Christian Leadership do what it does. Power, money. People donate to their churches. They work for those churches and get to pay themselves.

It all comes down to money and power. The guys at the top are all the same. And all of us at the bottom eat it up and believe we are really that different. I think of myself as a leftist. What do I want in a politician? A responsible government that spends what needs to be spent and no more. Does its work efficiently. Is not oppressive. Reacts to the electorate. Is committed to the nation and its people.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Ok...lets not get in a debate about wether this favoring the "weaker" party is right or wrong.



but.... for those of us who thinks all the feminazi and black pride stuff is getting ridiculous what is there to do about it besides complaining.

[Scurvy]

We are infected with a new form of racism today. One that favors minorities, women, and handicapped.

In an effort to find equality, we have slipped far into the opposite direction.

I actually agree with this

achieving complete equality is close to impossible, but as Goofball says, after the momentum has swung either way a ferw times it should level up to about right..

Balck America today is portrayed as "tough", "strong", and "athletic". Hollywood perpetuates this myth with (a) movies and (b) music. The promotion of these mediums of entertaiment for blacks in the United States are a celebration of anti-social behavior and success through aggressive behavior (be that behavior legal or not).

I think this is true of a lot of cultures, not just black culture. "success through aggressive behaviour" and the "celebration of anti-social behviour" is common outside the black community.

Black youth in American culture views its opportunities for success as limited to athleticism, rap music, or gang violence. When black youth attempts to escape these boundaries and attain an education, they are broken down by their peer as a betrayal of the race. In other words, blacks who pursue a route other than that glorified by hollywood become ostricized as "trying to be white".

generally i think this is right, but again the escaping of boundaries being seen as a betrayal of race seems a bit much, a betrayal of freinds etc maybe, but i think your putting too much emphasis on the white/black divide. blacks who persue a route other than hollywood may well be seen as ostricized, a product of jelousy which comes with such things (common through all cultures) - but i dont think it is because of "trying to be white" as such.

The argument that minorities require special representation is false. The argument that minorities are discriminated against based on skin color is also false. After all, where is the "Asian Leadership"? Asians as a minority in this country were forced into terrible servitude in the 1800s. They were virtually trapped by low pay and racial discrimination. But they had no MLKjr, and today Asians are renowned in the United states for their productivity and talent.

racism still exists, it may be that the black leadership over-emphasizes this, and people are definately descriminated over skin colour (although increasingly less so) minorities need representation, the problem is that they are over-represented. The asian minority is slightly different because of both its reputation as productive and talented, and its generally higher educated group.

I dont know enough about american polotics to comment of the democrat party needing a victim class, although is does sound plausible,

[Divinus Arma]

Try this one on for size:

http://www.racematters.org/mcwhorter.htm

[Strike For The South]

Many minorites have a problem with taking responsibilty for there own actions. This is why despite more whites being in poverty more minorites are in prison. It isnt becuase they lack oppurtuinity its becuase they excepect everything to be handed to them. That unfortunatly isnt American

[Del Arroyo]

I'm not sure I can take the same view on this, Divinus Arma. The expression of black culture does seem to have taken a turn for the worse over the past decade or two, but I am not so sure I see a top-down conspiracy here.

I even think it is possible that the decadence in the black movement in some ways parallels the decadence in American society in general.

I think we both agree though, that further steps towards integration will require more from the black side. I also think it's rather evident that the national black "leadership" is a sham, and that it is not in their interest to find real solutions.

[Ice]

America should have done what Abraham Lincoln wanted and sent them all back to Africa.

They are here now, so all we can do is support Condaleeza in '08!

How about we just deport all the racists?

[Divinus Arma]

How about we just deport all the racists?

Sadly, that would all include half of Black America. I have encountered more black racists than white racists by far.

[Strike For The South]

Sadly, that would all include half of Black America. I have encountered more black racists than white racists by far.

Its becuase there tuaght whites are evil and are the reason they cant succeed. Its quite luaghable when they still act like they under some sort of oppersion.

[Cowhead418]

You know what? You may be right. But since that statement can only possibly be applied to the last few decades at most, it doesn't really bother me.

The pendulum has finally (after thousands of years of human history) swung the other way, and the previously downtrodden are getting a bit of a leg up.

Good for them.



As is always the case when a pendulum backswings, it's going to swing too far on the first pass, but what inevitably happens is the extreme on either end starts to narrow and it eventually settles comfortably in the middle.

EDIT: I'm sorry, Goofball, I overreacted.

On a more lighthearted note, this site gave me some good chuckles: http://feministing.org

[CrossLOPER]

Its becuase there tuaght whites are evil and are the reason they cant succeed. Its quite luaghable when they still act like they under some sort of oppersion.

Amazing. You win the thread.

[Strike For The South]

Amazing. You win the thread.

What its true. In America today whites are tuaght to be ashamed and blacks are tuaght that we are evil and our mission in life is to keep them down. Racism is often an excuse for failure in our day and age.

[Cowhead418]

What its true. In America today whites are tuaght to be ashamed and blacks are tuaght that we are evil and our mission in life is to keep them down. Racism is often an excuse for failure in our day and age.

I think he was referring to your use of *ahem* grammar.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What its true. In America today whites are tuaght to be ashamed and blacks are tuaght that we are evil and our mission in life is to keep them down. Racism is often an excuse for failure in our day and age.

I've never been taught to be ashamed and don't know anyone who has.

[caravel]

I've never been taught to be ashamed and don't know anyone who has.

I think what SFTS is trying to say is that we are constantly reminded through television, media, education etc, that whites, particularly the British and Americans are responsible for slavery and persecution in the past. The "nanny state" constantly reminds us that e.g. a black man committed a crime because he felt excluded from (white) society, black boys are not doing well at school because their needs are not being addressed by the (white) education system, asian youths are turning to extremism due to their being discriminated against (by whites).

There is alot of this "blame culture" going on, and the blame always seems to sit squarely on the shoulders of the whites, it's always ok to blame them, and doing so isn't racist. They are the intolerant bigots that need to change, whereas the minorities are simply "misunderstood". It isn't people from ethnic minorities doing this, it's the politically correct loons that are actually widening the racial divide. This is generating resentment against whites among the black and asian muslim community in particular, which is coming full circle and increasing racist sentiment against these minorities overall. While minorities are perceived as a favoured group by the white working classes racism will be on the rise. This is simply undeniable. Unless this cycle is broken, and these PC lunatics are packed off to do some real work, the future as far as race relations are concerned, is pretty bleak.

[doc_bean]

We have an expression here: "the tallest wheat gets cut first". It's normal that people who succeed expose themselves to criticism, it might be harder for people of a 'poor' minority to accept because not only will they be moving social 'class' their circle of 'friends' will change colour. Understandable that they sometimes question if they are true to their roots. Understandable, though perhaps unforgivable, is that they are accused by others of betraying those roots.

Perhaps it's still a bit of African culture that has remained, success should be shared with the tribe, and not kept for the individual, perhaps this view (subconsciously) persist in black America ? Still, roots are important, consider all those threads here asking people for their ethnicity. many Americans seem to still consider themselves italian, Irish or whatever other country their ancestors lived in. Blacks, certainly those descendant from slaves can hardily do that, their culture is purely American, black American even.

I wouldn't change this in a partisan issue though. Sure the democrats might appeal more to black America, but that's probably because they are a 'city' party far more than the republicans. More black people in the cities, ergo the Democrats should appeal to them more, simply since they are part of the main target group.

Honestly the only thing that will ever solve this imo is mass interracial breeding. It's time we get over this whole 'race' thing and move on.

[Scurvy]

Its becuase there tuaght whites are evil and are the reason they cant succeed. Its quite luaghable when they still act like they under some sort of oppersion.

how do you know thats what they're taught? --> i take it your not black

all minorities act as if they are under oppression... its kind of an echo of the mindset attained through years of being oppressed, i think (and hope) it will change over time, especially as more black people achieve in predominantly white areas (ie. politics etc.)

I wouldn't change this in a partisan issue though. Sure the democrats might appeal more to black America, but that's probably because they are a 'city' party far more than the republicans. More black people in the cities, ergo the Democrats should appeal to them more, simply since they are part of the main target group.

Agreed.

There is alot of this "blame culture" going on, and the blame always seems to sit squarely on the shoulders of the whites, it's always ok to blame them, and doing so isn't racist. They are the intolerant bigots that need to change, whereas the minorities are simply "misunderstood". It isn't people from ethnic minorities doing this, it's the politically correct loons that are actually widening the racial divide. This is generating resentment against whites among the black and asian muslim community in particular, which is coming full circle and increasing racist sentiment against these minorities overall. While minorities are perceived as a favoured group by the white working classes racism will be on the rise. This is simply undeniable. Unless this cycle is broken, and these PC lunatics are packed off to do some real work, the future as far as race relations are concerned, is pretty bleak.

This makes a lot of good sense....

[BDC]

How about we just deport all the racists?

We don't want them back...

[AntiochusIII]

We don't want them back...

Australia can have it.

I'm enjoying this thread, by the way. It's a good start for a good day of white-bashing and self-victimization.

Evilz whyt opres0rs lolol.

[InsaneApache]

While it's often the case that some blacks in the USA have chips on there shoulders, who can blame them? It's not been that long since they had to sit on certain park benches and ride on blacks only busses.

As most of the regulars here know my dad married an African American and some of the things that she has told me that goes on, has made me feel ashamed to belong to the Anglo-Saxon race.

One of the reasons that they do not live in the (southern) USA is her real concerns about my dads welfare.

One thing she did relate to me that I found interesting was how she perceived Africans. They walk completely differently apparently. Something to do with self-confidence and self-belief.

BTW she used to vote Republican until Shrub 43.

[Goofball]

You know what? You may be right. But since that statement can only possibly be applied to the last few decades at most, it doesn't really bother me.

The pendulum has finally (after thousands of years of human history) swung the other way, and the previously downtrodden are getting a bit of a leg up.

Good for them.

As is always the case when a pendulum backswings, it's going to swing too far on the first pass, but what inevitably happens is the extreme on either end starts to narrow and it eventually settles comfortably in the middle.

Nothing to worry about, just sit back and relax.

I'll never understand this argument, it is completely absurd. I really hate it. It's like saying that whites should be slaves to blacks for past injustices. Why should I, as a white male living today, have to pay for what happened years before I was born? I personally did not commit any crime, so why should I be punished? Similarly, the women and blacks living today did not live back then either, so why should they get special privileges and rights? Your argument reeks of sexism and racism, but I guess that's ok, right? After all, only whites can be racist and only men can be sexist. Silly me. Hooray for double standards!

I'm sorry if you think my argument reeks of sexism and racism. I don't see it that way. I see the whole process now as a series of growing pains. Minorities now have a sense of newfound power that they never had before. It's only natural that they try to flex that muscle a bit and test the limits of it. And when those limits are reached, that's what will naturally cause the pendulum to swing back in the other direction, as I believe we can see happening right now.

It's not a question of justice or revenge.

And it's certainly not a question of whites being slaves. I didn't say that, and that can not possibly even be inferred from my statement.

Minorities have been oppressed for thousands of years. Finally, over the past few decades, the powered classes have realized that this should be corrected and have made attempts to rectify the situation. Some of the measures have been imperfect (and even divisive), such as affirmative action. Others have been just plain common sense, like making wheelchair access mandatory in buildings, or forcing employers to hold womens' jobs while they are on maternity leave.

But the key point is that these measures were not designed to punish anybody for past injustices. They were only meant to level the playing field.

And I have to laugh at you trying to compare your current "paying" to what blacks have gone through for the last few hundred years in North America.

It's like holding a birthday candle beside a oil well fire.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'll never understand this argument, it is completely absurd. I really hate it. It's like saying that whites should be slaves to blacks for past injustices. Why should I, as a white male living today, have to pay for what happened years before I was born? I personally did not commit any crime, so why should I be punished? Similarly, the women and blacks living today did not live back then either, so why should they get special privileges and rights? Your argument reeks of sexism and racism, but I guess that's ok, right? After all, only whites can be racist and only men can be sexist. Silly me. Hooray for double standards!

What its true. In America today whites are tuaght to be ashamed and blacks are tuaght that we are evil and our mission in life is to keep them down. Racism is often an excuse for failure in our day and age.

I think what SFTS is trying to say is that we are constantly reminded through television, media, education etc, that whites, particularly the British and Americans are responsible for slavery and persecution in the past. The "nanny state" constantly reminds us that e.g. a black man committed a crime because he felt excluded from (white) society, black boys are not doing well at school because their needs are not being addressed by the (white) education system, asian youths are turning to extremism due to their being discriminated against (by whites).

There is alot of this "blame culture" going on, and the blame always seems to sit squarely on the shoulders of the whites, it's always ok to blame them, and doing so isn't racist. They are the intolerant bigots that need to change, whereas the minorities are simply "misunderstood". It isn't people from ethnic minorities doing this, it's the politically correct loons that are actually widening the racial divide. This is generating resentment against whites among the black and asian muslim community in particular, which is coming full circle and increasing racist sentiment against these minorities overall. While minorities are perceived as a favoured group by the white working classes racism will be on the rise. This is simply undeniable. Unless this cycle is broken, and these PC lunatics are packed off to do some real work, the future as far as race relations are concerned, is pretty bleak.

I think it's evident a lot of whites see themselves as victims

[Strike For The South]

While it's often the case that some blacks in the USA have chips on there shoulders, who can blame them? It's not been that long since they had to sit on certain park benches and ride on blacks only busses.

As most of the regulars here know my dad married an African American and some of the things that she has told me that goes on, has made me feel ashamed to belong to the Anglo-Saxon race.

One of the reasons that they do not live in the (southern) USA is her real concerns about my dads welfare.

One thing she did relate to me that I found interesting was how she perceived Africans. They walk completely differently apparently. Something to do with self-confidence and self-belief.

BTW she used to vote Republican until Shrub 43.

What concerns. Did she think he would be harrassed becuase he married a black woman?

[Vuk]

I'm sorry if you think my argument reeks of sexism and racism. I don't see it that way. I see the whole process now as a series of growing pains. Minorities now have a sense of newfound power that they never had before. It's only natural that they try to flex that muscle a bit and test the limits of it. And when those limits are reached, that's what will naturally cause the pendulum to swing back in the other direction, as I believe we can see happening right now.

It's not a question of justice or revenge.

And it's certainly not a question of whites being slaves. I didn't say that, and that can not possibly even be inferred from my statement.

Minorities have been oppressed for thousands of years. Finally, over the past few decades, the powered classes have realized that this should be corrected and have made attempts to rectify the situation. Some of the measures have been imperfect (and even divisive), such as affirmative action. Others have been just plain common sense, like making wheelchair access mandatory in buildings, or forcing employers to hold womens' jobs while they are on maternity leave.

But the key point is that these measures were not designed to punish anybody for past injustices. They were only meant to level the playing field.

And I have to laugh at you trying to compare your current "paying" to what blacks have gone through for the last few hundred years in North America.

It's like holding a birthday candle beside a oil well fire.

"Others have been just plain common sense, like making wheelchair access mandatory in buildings, or forcing employers to hold womens' jobs while they are on maternity leave."
That is not empowering any one or giving anyone special treatment. That is acknowledging that there is a difference in sexes and that each has special needs - something that a lot say is sexist. People think it is wrong to differentiate or discriminate, when it is totally necesarry. (I considered not using the word 'discriminate' because of the bad rep the media has given it, but when you think of it, there is nothing wrong with discrimination. When you pick out eggs at the supermarket and choose one carton over the other because of the quality, you are discriminating. When you walk into a room and try to find someone of the opposite sex to talk to, and pass one over for one better built or looking, you are discriminating. etc etc Discrimination doesn't have to be giving one person a job over another because of their skin colour...just wanted to clear that up...)

Now let's talk common sense vs. PC BS.

PC BS: Blacks were slaves for a few hundred years so now all blacks get special treatment over whites.

Sounds fair right? Now let's try throwing a little common sense in and see what happens.

Common Sense:
FACT: 99% of slave traders were black and well before whites bought slaves from them they had been enslaving other blacks. That is, blacks held more black slaves than whites, and for longer than whites. Also, blacks starved, tortured, mutilated, and even ate their slaves - in the south where slaves were a valuable commodity, they were treated extremely well for the most part. (Which isn't to say there wasn't a lot of abuse - there was. That is where the "for the most part" comes in...)
FACT: A white slave trade was going on at the same time and there were more white slaves in America than black slaves. Also, the black slaves were treated fairly well for slaves, while the white slaves were worked to death and put into brothels.

Ok, Common sense threw out its facts, now let's see it argument.

Common Sense's argument: It is ridiculous to give people special treatment for wrongs done to their ancestors. I am part Irish and the Irish got treated a lot worse than the blacks - should I be raised on a pedastal? Anyone can did up some horrendous wrong done to their ancestors for a long amount of time, and we could go on forever with everyone sucking up to everyone. What matters is the NOW! It is too late to right past wrongs, and giving things to modern people completely undeserving of them isn't going to help those who suffered and died. What we can do now is make sure that every on IS (not was as that is to late) treated equally! Giving special treatment to a certain race or sex will only cause racial and sexual discourse. We will only complicate the situation more and more if we don't stop with the PC BS and use a little common sense. What ever did happen to that golden vision odf equality? "I have a dream!"

I don't know about you, but it seemed to me that Common sense whooped the pants of PC BS!

[InsaneApache]

What concerns. Did she think he would be harrassed becuase he married a black woman?

Yes.