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Thread: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

  1. #1
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Remember russian immigrant quotas ?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6262549.stm

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Enforcing Russia's migrant quotas

    Russian police are raiding the country's markets.

    They are enforcing quotas on the number of foreigners working in the retail trade - new laws limit that to 40%.

    That is just for now. By the end of the year, there are not supposed to be any.

    The building supplies market in a far-flung northern suburb of Moscow is the target of an ongoing operation.

    Market patrols

    The officers pile out of a bus and get to work. They split up into pairs and fan out among the shops and stalls.


    Who will clean the streets? All those sorts of jobs fall on immigrants' shoulders
    Roman, immigrant

    They seem pretty clear what they are looking for: anyone whose appearance suggests they might come from the Caucasus, Central Asia, or further afield.

    The process looks pretty simple. If you are not white, they would like to see your documents.

    The slightest irregularity gets the suspected offender marched off for questioning.

    'Positive effect'

    Viktor Markov from the Russian immigration service is on hand to oversee the operation.

    A policeman checks a passport of one of the detained men
    The slightest irregularity in a passport could mean deportation

    "The number of foreigners at the markets has definitely gone down," he tells me as officers search the suspects they are holding.

    "More and more people are applying for residence permits. So I think altogether these laws have had a positive effect."

    The quotas became law on 1 January.

    By 15 January, foreigners must make up no more than 40% of those working in the retail trade in Russia.

    Then, between 1 April and the end of the year, that number is supposed to go down to zero.

    The new legislation was proposed after race riots in northern Russia late last summer.

    President Vladimir Putin spoke of the need to defend the interests of what he called the "native population".

    Markets - often a source of employment for Russia's army of immigrant workers - were singled out.

    Tajik hardship

    Many of them live in miserable conditions.

    Roman and his neighbour's two-year-old daughter
    Roman lives in squalid conditions - like many other migrants

    Roman came to Moscow from Tajikistan in the 1990s.

    He shares a tiny room no more than a few metres square with two other people. When we meet, he is also babysitting for a neighbour's two-year-old daughter.

    More than a quarter of his meagre wage goes on the corner he calls home.

    Roman knows that he may have to leave Russia. But he questions whether the new laws are workable.

    "If they deport us, we'll leave," he tells me.

    "But the people here won't do the jobs we do. Who's going to do the work? Who will clean the streets? All those sort of jobs fall on immigrants' shoulders," he says, slapping his own shoulder for emphasis.

    'Police corruption'

    Human rights groups concede that the legislation will simplify some bureaucratic processes.

    An immigrant in Moscow
    Firewood is the only heating fuel for some Moscow migrants

    People arriving in Russia can now register by telegram instead of having a lengthy wait at a police station.

    That will not alter the fact that, on the face of it, foreigners are simply being banned from a huge area of economic activity.

    Bakhroom Khamruyev campaigns for the rights of Central Asian immigrants in Russia.

    He suspects, like Roman, that the new law will make life tougher. He also suspects that much will depend on how the law is actually applied.

    That is because despite many attempts to eradicate it, police corruption in this country is rife.

    "This is playing straight into the hands of corrupt police officers," Mr Khamruyev says of the new laws.

    "They've always taken bribes from migrants, and they won't stop now."

    Russia is getting rich. The economy is growing, but short life expectancy and a low birth rate mean the population is falling.

    So Russia needs to expand its workforce. Immigrants are not encouraged to apply.






    Apparently it is going on all 'too well'.

    In the asian part of Russian Federation the numerous Chinese who were selling in those markets left them and because noone wants to work for such low amounts of money the places are almost completelly empty.

    The situation is only slightly better in the european part of RF, but that is because many immigrants decided to stay and simply pay larger bribes. Still even in St.Petersberg between 20 % of those little shops are closed and it can only get worse.
    Why ? Because the people earned so little that no 'true' Russian wants to work there...

    'Lovely idea' to attract nationalist voters ( 53 % of Russians support the slogan 'Russia for the Russians') hits the poorest part of russian society.

    And it will get worse - to 1st April surely more people will leave and noone knows how many decide to stop selling if the ban is imposed really as it is written..

    Someone will have to fill the space in the market, but who ? Maybe the skinheads who use anti-immigrant slogans so often ?

  2. #2
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Russia will either collapse, again, or will become the next big threat for world peace, again. Probably both.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  3. #3
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Russia will either collapse, again, or will become the next big threat for world peace, again. Probably both.
    Oil money will be channelled off into big mansions abroad. Oil money runs out. The end.

    Not a threat to anyone, except maybe themselves. Although all those undefended nukes lying about might be an issue.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    What would happen if they did that in Ireland?


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  5. #5
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    What would happen if they did that in Ireland?


    Tribesman's business would grind to halt and I would have a tough time finding maidservants?
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  6. #6
    Sacrelicious Member Rameusb5's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Yey Democracy!
    Rameus

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Humm, I may very well have the wrong information, but what I have been lead to believe here in Germany is if you get a job here you can stay, just take the 630 hour class in German in your off hours though.

    I understand that many of the schools have more foreign students than natives…

    Foreigners seem to have more luck finding employment here than the Germans….some draw unemployment for years…some just don't seem to try.



    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Fisherking - maybe thye just work better?
    :)

    Anyway Russia is more and more racist country.
    They are talking about WW2 and defeating Nazis but they don't see that Nazis are strongest into Russian these days.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

  9. #9
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    OK I entered youtube and started looking ;

    Warning: video in the 'spoiled' link contains disturbing images of violence.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 01-28-2007 at 17:18.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

  10. #10

    Default AW: Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    Humm, I may very well have the wrong information, but what I have been lead to believe here in Germany is if you get a job here you can stay, just take the 630 hour class in German in your off hours though.

    I understand that many of the schools have more foreign students than natives…

    Foreigners seem to have more luck finding employment here than the Germans….some draw unemployment for years…some just don't seem to try.

    Generally you are right, Fisherking.

    Although I think saying that foreigners are generally more motivated to work than Germans isn´t really fair. Those foreigners that come here to work naturally are very motivated while lazier foreigners wouldn´t come here in the first place. However it´s also true that for some jobs it´s nearly impossible to find German employees, for example harvesting asparagus. The farmers have to hire Polish people for this work. The government tried to make German unemployed people do this job, but it was a disaster. 90 % of them simply didn´t go there.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    One thing I am not implying here is that the German People are lazy.

    There really is something else at work here. I have never seen a people more motivated or tied up with their national identity the ideas of excellence and efficiency in their jobs.

    I know too little about it all to make informed judgments but on the surface, to an outsider, it would seem to be related to governmental policies (both National and EU).

    From what I see, and I am certainly no expert, governmental control of operating hours and the strict rules qualifications as to who may perform a particular job, or start up a business have a stifling effect on both existing jobs and the creation of new ones.

    Unemployed Germans tend to be specialists in a particular field and highly trained…but can't go into a new field because of training requirements. He or she can not just hang a shingle and open their own business either. There are strict regulations on who may operate a business and if you lack the money on top of it for start-up fees you won't find anyone eager to help. Couple with that new EU regulations, especially in engineering, and you start to wonder why so many people have jobs at all.

    The result seems to be a lot of Germans going to other EU countries where their skills can be used in related fields or unemployed Engineers waiting for a new company that needs them.

    Coming from a country where the unskilled make up the majority of the unemployed it just seems like a system standing on its head.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  12. #12
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Coming from a country where the unskilled make up the majority of the unemployed it just seems like a system standing on its head.
    People trained for the wrong things. Then of course they don't want to do unskilled tasks or retrain because they've spent decades getting to their level of expertise.

  13. #13

    Default AW: Errr... nobody wants to work ???

    Thanks for your sharing your impressions of Germany, Fisherking. However I think it needs to be added that there are in fact many unskilled among the unemployed here. Some of them have finished (or simply quitted) school but can barely write and don´t know the basics of mathematics. These people don´t find an employer who wants to train them for a job, which is an absolute must these days.

    On the vast amount of regulations: Well yeah, we are Germany, aren´t we But I think generally you can very well start your own business here without any special qualifications as long as you are not entering the playgrounds of one of those groups who have built high fences around their territories, for example tax advisers, apothecaries, etc. ...

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