Obsession with Rock-Paper-Scissors

**Rhyfelwyr** · 01-17-2007, 23:35

I don't think a RPS system would limit the use of tactics in TW games. Its pretty historically accurate. Its easier to fight a man on a big warhorse when you have a big spear to poke him with. At the same time, if you break a spearman units line (long spears only, not Town Militia type), then you would find things easier in such close quarters with a sword. If your on a big horse, its easy to cut down men with short weapons such as swords below you.

I think the best system in terms of tactics would be to have a RPS system as the backbone. Then add special functions for every type of unit, to give them a real sense of purpose, something I think units lack in M2TW, although I still love the game. Use long spears or pikes to hold a defensive line or choke points, and defend against cavalry charges. Use two-handed weapons to charge at an enemy line and break it up, then withdraw them as their charge bonus wears off. Try to use halbers, billmen, axes etc as anti-armour specialists. Swordsmen and shortspearmen will form the backbone of an army, and be part of the RPS system in terms of their tactics. Cavalry are used to counter non-spear infantry, and break enemy formations with deadly charges, before withdrawing as the lose their charge bonus, perhaps repeat the process. Lighter cavalry are good for chasing away missile units and catching routers. Archers would be basic support troops. Crossbowmen and javelinmen should be short range anti-armour specialists.

If this sort of system could be implemented, it would really add a whole new depth to M2TW battlefield tactics. In fact, I plan on making a basic mod to do this as far as possible.

**grinningman** · 01-17-2007, 23:47

If you equate 'RPS system' with 'there shouldn't be a single strongest unit', then of course all balancing should aim for a RPS system. I just wanted to point out that a sword-beats-spear-beats-cavalry-beats-sword system is not the only balance aspect going on, and it's not required or even desirable for an interesting, balanced combat system.

Out of interest, does anyone know if spear units do get a defence bonus in M2TW based on ranks as they did in MTW? I haven't noticed. In MTW it was important to keep your spear units in hold formation mode for this reason.

**Carl** · 01-18-2007, 00:04

No they don't. they just get 2 attack bonus vs. cav and an attack pealty vs infantry, (the penalty being part of the same thing that gives spears 1 of the attack bounses against cav), and also a charge resistance bonus vs cav too, again this is tied to the same thing that kils their infantry killing powor.

**Lusted** · 01-18-2007, 00:25

Rock, paper, scissor balance is not a magical cure, but it is a great backbone on which to build unit balance. There will be exceptions to the rule, and unit types that do not fit the rule, but a rock, papaer, scissor approach gives each units its purporse and leads for more challenging battles, without reducing all armeis to the same composition because of the variety around a rock, paper, scissor approach.

**grinningman** · 01-18-2007, 00:30

Originally Posted by Carl

No they don't. they just get 2 attack bonus vs. cav and an attack pealty vs infantry, (the penalty being part of the same thing that gives spears 1 of the attack bounses against cav), and also a charge resistance bonus vs cav too, again this is tied to the same thing that kils their infantry killing powor.

Ok, thanks. I guess this has been the case since RTW, as I don't remember ranks giving a defensive bonus there either. It's a shame though, that was an interesting ability for spearmen. I suppose the multiple ranks fighting from MTW has been accounted for by spears in M2TW having a longer range.

**Carl** · 01-18-2007, 00:35

Not really. Spears only fight in 1 rank in M2TW.

**grinningman** · 01-18-2007, 00:49

@lusted

Fair enough, but I think the backbone of tactics in TW games is based around flanking and morale, not a RPS system (despite what the STW tutorial says

), and I really like it that way.

@carl

Well then scratch any possible modifcations to multiple ranks fighting/rank defensive bonus to improve spearmen. D'oh. I suppose pike spearwalls are how they simulate many ranks fighting at once in RTW and M2TW and spears have lost that ability.