300 trailer

[Krusader]

http://www.worstpreviews.com/trailer.php?id=453&item=0

For the movie 300 based on the comic by the same name by Frank Miller. About the 300 Spartans who fought at Thermopylae.

Seems like to be a good enough action movie, maybe not 100% historically accurate or politcally correct

Anywho, don't expect Spartiatai in EB to be like these Spartans.

[Simmons]

Wow I don't really know what to say its either going to be really good in a surreal non historical action way (sort of like SG-1 but with blood and no science) or really really really bad.

[paullus]

i'm kinda leaning toward the latter (really really bad)...it looks like it might have been successful in the 80s, as a rock opera for a low quality hair band.

[iberus_generalis]

i don't know what to think of it...it looks another alexander movie...a fiasco...i looks a bit surreal...some unreal creatrures....but if in the end it good, i don't care if it0s unhistorical... but for now, i must say the arrow tips look a bit too exagerated, who would use such a thing? its not aerodynamic, and doesn't looks too real...and a movie about what? the massacre of 300 spartans by arrow fire? the would be all dead before they had the possibility of landing the first blow with their swords... the persians slaughtered them with arrows...so i don't see the point of making a movie about spartans...and after all, why do they keep going about with the spartan myth? thebans were like the spartans, but at least didn't sufered so shameful defeats...the spartans lost once to peltasts so..i guess the spartan miss is just unfunded reputation and propaganda...

but let's wait and see..maybe it will be a good movie...

[paullus]

No, the Spartans were certainly worthy of their reputation. They and their allies held out against a much larger force at Thermopylae, and defeated them at Plataea (at which the Spartans again played a critical role), they were the best hoplite force in Greece for a couple of centuries.

Saying they aren't good because of the defeat by peltasts isn't hardly fair: that signalled the end of hoplite supremacy; it could have happened to any unaccompanied hoplite force, and signalled the need for combined arms as cities with inferior hoplites began recruiting peltasts and more cavalry to try to even the balance against states like Sparta.

[eadingas]

Forget history, enjoy the movie :) It's a comic book adaptation, not a historical lecture... the comic was cool, and this looks like can be quite an entertaining piece.

[iberus_generalis]

i think the superiority of sparta, is no more than propaganda...sure they had good soldiers, but i think the things ppl say they did, are a bit exagerated...the superiority of sparta, is IMO like the superiority of USA, ppl say it in the news, but when one looks closely we see they are not so superior as they say...the sure did have a culture, and the americans do have good equipement, but that doesn't win everything..take the portuguese military forces, internationaly, and to the public, they are not known, as superior, quite the contrary, but in the military competitions the portuguese military rock, it's said by military experts, that our commandoes, and paratroopers, and common troopers are some of the most better trained, being trained in the arsher conditions, and as troops are as best as you can get, and some of our instructors are requested to go and teach in other countries like spain, britain, and france....but due to our small size, and international unimportance, our military forces go unoticed.. the same i feel happened with sparta and thebes, they had good soldiers and all, at the cost of everything that characterized them as hellenic(they were very poor in culture, and art), but some other cities like thebes, that might have been better than them, were eclipsed by all the propaganda that sparta was better....

i don't know the comic...but i do know that frank miller did sin city...and if sin city is an indicative of the quality...well i guess im gonna look for 300.....now all i have to do is find it in a comic store, and buy it...how many issues were there?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

ig - you are talking about vastly vastly different things here. Spartans fighting at Thermopylae and Plataea, against Persian armies who invaded Greece and very well might have totally extinguished the Spartans (and Athenians, but certainly not all greeks) is quite a bit different from American armies, be they drafted or volunteer, that are sent by their political leaders to other countries to fight.

As for propaganda, there is something to be said for it, but its not the main reason they were so successful. Being raised in a system that gave them the opportunity to train almost constantly on fighting gives them a big advantage immediately. Their reputation does come into play though - as it happened a number of times that armies would not fight them or fled more quickly if things started going badly against them. People don't pay as much attention to the perioikic armies that fought alongside them too though - they were extremely important as well. Still, they did fight and fight very well, and you can't just chalk it up to propaganda. The biggest battle of greeks vs greeks (till that time - about 390bc) that took place outside of Corinth on the Nemea River totalled about 50,000 greeks on both sides. Sparta and some Peloponnesian allies vs. Athens/Thebes/Corinth/Argos. Both sides hit and the right wings both had success, but the Spartans were much better able to exploit their advantage, wheeling around quickly on the flanks and cutting through the masses of their enemies instead of chasing routers like the Argives were doing on the other successfull flank. Only *eight* Spartiates died.

As for the movie, I would have much much much rather seen Gates of Thermopylae get the go ahead instead of this one.

[eadingas]

The Greeks had the best military ideas of the time (we're talking Persian Wars here, not later periods), and Spartans were the best to employ them. Simple as that.
Don't chalk every good thing about antiquity up to propaganda. There's nothing bad in admitting that some people were actually much better warriors than others. In an environment where equipment and tactics are pretty much equal all over - as in ancient Greece - it's morale and training that makes you stand out, and when you're raised and trained from childhood as a professional soldier you will have a distinct advantage over those who weren't.
Not to mention the hoplites were simply vastly superior to whatever the Persian army at the time could deploy. To use a modern comparison, when US Army deploys M1A1 tanks against their enemies, it's not a matter of propaganda that they win every land battle. They really have better troops and equipment.

[iberus_generalis]

we don't know if the "really" win the battles...we tend to see only the side the americans want us to see....or are you going to tell me that usa won in irak the first time they went there...i don't think so... but back to topic....
what is this "Gates of Thermopylae" movie? never heard of it? and never heard of 300 in my country...is it out? and the gates movie too?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

gates of thermopylae is a novel set around Thermopylae that the film rights had been bought up for it. It has not started production and will probably get shelved indefinitely ever since the 300 started. Who knows though - maybe USA or TNT or someone will pick it up and make a 4 hour miniseries out of it.

[MSB]

Can I just ask: What has this got to do with EB??? Are you putting The Battle of Thermopoly in 0.8 or something?

[Comrade Alexeo]

Once again, Hollywood is ruining a perfectly good story to try and make it "cool."

To me, the story - the REAL story - of the 300 Spartans is one of the greatest ever told. The story of 300 men willing to stand against 250,000 does not need to be made "cool" because its already awe-inspiring.

But, alas, it seems our country is full of too many stupid people that Hollywood feels they must appease. With one swift stroke Frank Miller has now prevented any other movie about Thermopylae from being made for years, if not decades. His use of real Spartan lines - like the one about the arrows - now automatically means that nobody else could use them, because people will think that they're some really cool line that Frank Miller came up with, not fact.

Thank you, Frank Miller, for aiding in the dumbing-down of America.

[Sarkiss]

gates of thermopylae is a novel set around Thermopylae that the film rights had been bought up for it. It has not started production and will probably get shelved indefinitely ever since the 300 started.

that's sad. im totally crazy about epics and loved Alex though it was screwed, still liked it. the more epics the better. bring them on!
i didnt see Sin City so dont know whats gonna come out of 300.
liked the trailer though. has some weird creatures and stuff but the spirit of the Sparta is right in there, screaming out loud.
'SPARTANS THIS IS WHERE WE FIGHT!!! THIS IS WHERE THEY DIE!!!'

[iberus_generalis]

Once again, Hollywood is ruining a perfectly good story to try and make it "cool."

To me, the story - the REAL story - of the 300 Spartans is one of the greatest ever told. The story of 300 men willing to stand against 250,000 does not need to be made "cool" because its already awe-inspiring.

But, alas, it seems our country is full of too many stupid people that Hollywood feels they must appease. With one swift stroke Frank Miller has now prevented any other movie about Thermopylae from being made for years, if not decades. His use of real Spartan lines - like the one about the arrows - now automatically means that nobody else could use them, because people will think that they're some really cool line that Frank Miller came up with, not fact.

Thank you, Frank Miller, for aiding in the dumbing-down of America.

well comarade, americans, and the rest of the world will only get more and more dumbed down by holliwood and the Mass media, if they want to...i love hollywood movies(as well as some others not from the USA) and it's not because of them that i get dumbed down...sure "evolved" societes, are getting more and more lazy, and kids are only getting info and "education" through the tv screen...but there's no need to panic...let them be ignorant, don't you care about them...be an island of knowledge in the ocean of ignorance our world is becoming day by day...worry about yourself not geting dumbed down...you'll see that in time, you'll make private jokes, and feel above the rest of the common folk...and besides, have you never heard that information is power? you have info on something nobody suspects...and that gives you importance above them.. i used to think tv and hollywood were dumbing down humanity, i still do, but now i don't give a damn, cuz i worry about myself, and help others on their way to knowledge when im required, but i don't care if ppl around me prefer to be ignorant.... let them have tendencious news, let them have pop star girlie music, let them have soaps. i prefer dance music, punk rock, and good solid knowledge about the world i live in...

but comrade you are right thanks to this movie we won't see another movie about thermopylae for a long time, cuz those are the rules of the business...today, most directors, and studios make movies for the oscars, and don't care if they are good or not, as long as they are good to get prizes(politically correctness is a requirement)....that's sad that our world is so stupid, but what can we do?
after 300 they could do a good movie about Alesia...or about something historical...or redo quovadis, with realistical blood games, or even a good(read GOOD) Medieval era movie that doesn't focus the barbaric nature of the hundred year war, or the germanic barbarians(crusaders and all those papal fanatics), or the Christian Reconquista of Iberia, who is so far a rich soil for movies but with none made to date by a big studio...

lets just pray this movie is the Thing, and not another alexander, or another troy...let's hope this guys learned somethings with these two failures, and with Gladiator

and what is this new fixation hollywood has with men jumping high in the air(unrealisticly) and atack ppl with swords in mid air??? first the pitt's super jumps of death, and now 300 with something similar? can't they see that it's highly unrealisitical, a veteran would just step away, and extend his sword and impale the Superjumper in his sword????

and what is that fat monster with blades for arms in the trailer??? a boss from quake4? lol lets just hope this movie is great and that this strange looking glimpses have a more or less logic to be there....

[Tanit]

CURSE HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!

One day I will make a movie about Thermopylae that follows the historical reality, cause like others have said it is one of the most epic amazing stories ever made. And if I do make a Thermopylae movie I will make sure that the EB team has their say in its script and blocking. That's right, EB will rule the world of movies as well as games!

[Foot]

Its a comic book (that uses the cliched version of the battle) to excite us about history. Its a story of superheroes, so I'm not too worried about historical accuracy. In fact it looks quite fun, and i really like the art that has gone into the background and stuff.

Having said that I really don't like the way that Persia always is the evil empire thing I don't like (though its fair enough that they are depicted as enemies, its the moral conatations I don't like). I wish just once Persia was given the respect it deserves, though I guess if more of their literature and written history had survived maybe it wouldn't always be so one-sided.

Foot

[Sarkiss]

I really don't like the way that Persia always is the evil empire thing I don't like (though its fair enough that they are depicted as enemies, its the moral conatations I don't like). I wish just once Persia was given the respect it deserves, though I guess if more of their literature and written history had survived maybe it wouldn't always be so one-sided.

Foot

i agree.
you know i was amazed when visited exhibition - ' Forgotten empire' about Achaemenid Persia in British Museum. it represented so different views form what we used to. i.e. Alexander is not 'Great' but a barbarian who burnt down Persepolis, all stories from ancient Greek literature, that become a classical writing of Western civilization, describing Greek revolts and struggle against Persian oppression not more than some insignificant unrest in a distant part of an empire.
we surely need to see both sides of the coins to be able to come to the most comprehensive and fair conclusions.

[MSB]

CURSE HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!

One day I will make a movie about Thermopylae that follows the historical reality, cause like others have said it is one of the most epic amazing stories ever made. And if I do make a Thermopylae movie I will make sure that the EB team has their say in its script and blocking. That's right, EB will rule the world of movies as well as games!

Very well said Tanit!

EB should rule the Gaming and Historical world!

[Zaknafien]

a) its a comic book, its entertainment.

b) I ama stikcer for history as much as the next historian, but let your hair down for a couple hours and enjoy it for what it is.

c) sure, Spartiate supremacy may be overblown by centuries of mythology, but these are always based in some fact, and the Spartan warrior ethos and general culture were the basis for these later imaginings. They certainly earn their reputation for valor.

d) I know youre not comparing the United States armed forces with those of Portugal...

**As an aside, from experiences in both Afghanistan and Iraq Ive had the chance to work with a dozen armed forces of various european and other coalition nations. The only ones I would trust to do anything are the British, and, to a lesser degree, the Canadians. This is from first hand knowledge, working with these soldiers in firefights.

[Krusader]

Well, Darius' expedition in 490 BC was a "punishment expedition" to teach the Greeks a lesson for assisting the Ionian Greeks in their revolt. He might have wanted to conquer Greece to secure his western border. For the Persians, Greece was just a insignificant border territory (at first).

And in the years up until the rise of Macedon, the Persians were actively involved in Greek affairs and always managed to turn the citystates against eachother in a way which benefitted Persia.

It was the Greeks of the 19th century who when fighting for independence from the Ottoman Empire, begun calling the battle of Thermopylae and Persian Wars as a time when Greeks saved western civilization and culture from the evil Persians (who were portrayed like the Ottomans).

[vizigothe]

Once again, Hollywood is ruining a perfectly good story to try and make it "cool."

To me, the story - the REAL story - of the 300 Spartans is one of the greatest ever told. The story of 300 men willing to stand against 250,000 does not need to be made "cool" because its already awe-inspiring.

But, alas, it seems our country is full of too many stupid people that Hollywood feels they must appease. With one swift stroke Frank Miller has now prevented any other movie about Thermopylae from being made for years, if not decades. His use of real Spartan lines - like the one about the arrows - now automatically means that nobody else could use them, because people will think that they're some really cool line that Frank Miller came up with, not fact.

Thank you, Frank Miller, for aiding in the dumbing-down of America.

Curses! I guess entertaining, stylish and imagination are not allowed in your world. It is based off a comic book, not off a historical text.

Edit: And Tanit....no one will fund it and no one will watch it. Movies are for entertainment and to make details up to add to the drama and excitement. You will not be able to make a movie that is perfectly accurate and get people to fund it. Good luck anyway.

[Sarkiss]

**As an aside, from experiences in both Afghanistan and Iraq Ive had the chance to work with a dozen armed forces of various european and other coalition nations. The only ones I would trust to do anything are the British, and, to a lesser degree, the Canadians. This is from first hand knowledge, working with these soldiers in firefights.

a noob question out of curiosity.
does this have something to do with language barrier at all?
sorry for off top.

[Zaknafien]

we can continue this in PM if you like since its OT, Sarkiss, but a language barrier may be a small part of the problem, however generally no because the majority of officers and non-comissioned officers speak English. Its more from a culture stand-point, less discipline, in both appearance and military courtesy, response to orders, etc. Not to mention the glaring communication and transportation issues some countries militaries have, with sub-standard radios, weapons, very few computers or digital battlefield awareness sensors, and a lack of good off-road and armored vehicles. The planning and rehearsal processes of certain countries I won't mention are deplorable, by the way.

[MSB]

Well, Darius' expedition in 490 BC was a "punishment expedition" to teach the Greeks a lesson for assisting the Ionian Greeks in their revolt. He might have wanted to conquer Greece to secure his western border. For the Persians, Greece was just a insignificant border territory (at first).

And in the years up until the rise of Macedon, the Persians were actively involved in Greek affairs and always managed to turn the citystates against eachother in a way which benefitted Persia.

It was the Greeks of the 19th century who when fighting for independence from the Ottoman Empire, begun calling the battle of Thermopylae and Persian Wars as a time when Greeks saved western civilization and culture from the evil Persians (who were portrayed like the Ottomans).

Darius was not evil, or at least not by the standards of the age. The Persians and the Persian empire just stood up for the one thing that most ambitious peoples stood up for in the classical age: Power, glory and wealth to us and us only, brutality to all those who oppose us! Although it was a punishment expedition any faction who had promoted rebellion would have been crushed because they were a threat to sercurity. So lets say the Greeks had a fictional empire that had Dacia in it. if the Persians had promoted rebellion in Dacia the Greeks (particually the Spartans) would have retalliated against Persia.

Oh this world and it's reliance on stereotypes! What end is it comming to !!

[Krusader]

Darius was not evil, or at least not by the standards of the age. The Persians and the Persian empire just stood up for the one thing that most ambitious peoples stood up for in the classical age: Power, glory and wealth to us and us only, brutality to all those who oppose us! Although it was a punishment expedition any faction who had promoted rebellion would have been crushed because they were a threat to sercurity. So lets say the Greeks had a fictional empire that had Dacia in it. if the Persians had promoted rebellion in Dacia the Greeks (particually the Spartans) would have retalliated against Persia.

Oh this world and it's reliance on stereotypes! What end is it comming to !!

Either I'm writing bad or you can't read in context. I assume the former.

Darius wasn't evil no. He had every right to send that expedition to Greece, as the Greeks had supported the Ionian revolt.

And the last paragraph, when I write evil Persians in that context I meant how the Greeks portrayed them. If you have read history you will know the Ottomans were mainly portrayed as evil-doers in Europe, due to the many wars in the centuries before and them being Muslims and when the Persians were shown in the same light, well stereotypes are born.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Darius was not evil, or at least not by the standards of the age. The Persians and the Persian empire just stood up for the one thing that most ambitious peoples stood up for in the classical age: Power, glory and wealth to us and us only, brutality to all those who oppose us! Although it was a punishment expedition any faction who had promoted rebellion would have been crushed because they were a threat to sercurity. So lets say the Greeks had a fictional empire that had Dacia in it. if the Persians had promoted rebellion in Dacia the Greeks (particually the Spartans) would have retalliated against Persia.

Oh this world and it's reliance on stereotypes! What end is it comming to !!

Not quite the same. The Ionians were greek too though - don't forget that. Not saying that they were all BFF or anything, but still it's a little different to say that the Persians supporting a Dacian revolt from the greeks is like the greeks supporting a greek revolt from the Persians.

[iberus_generalis]

we can continue this in PM if you like since its OT, Sarkiss, but a language barrier may be a small part of the problem, however generally no because the majority of officers and non-comissioned officers speak English. Its more from a culture stand-point, less discipline, in both appearance and military courtesy, response to orders, etc. Not to mention the glaring communication and transportation issues some countries militaries have, with sub-standard radios, weapons, very few computers or digital battlefield awareness sensors, and a lack of good off-road and armored vehicles. The planning and rehearsal processes of certain countries I won't mention are deplorable, by the way.

zaknafien, as a military man you should be aware that equipment is not all in war...sure is a big part, but it's not all, how many times have armies with superior armament and logistics been defeated by enemies they deemed inferior? countless times...look at all mighty Rome...the first times they tried to conquer Celtiberians, lusitans, and the northern peoples of iberia, the parthians, they got shameful defeats, france against the english longbowmen, even in your country it happened(im talking about when you threw out the english)...so don't judge the military by the quality of their equipment, or by the diferent methods they use, they may look sub standard to you who was trained by USA, and got new guns, and high tech equipment, but if they are still used, maybe it still gets the job done...im not a military genius, never were although i got to be corporal during my recruit, and i don't have knowledge of the weapons of your country, but here we use some weapons and equipments that for you are considered sub standard, but nonetheless, if we ever needed to go to war like the USA does, we would not go badly... you should judge other military forces by their results and never by the equipment they use...never forget this...underestimation was always the path to defeat...and you know it...sure many military systems are not as good logistically as the army of your country, and that is a good thing, cuz if they were...well i don't want to imagine the world that way if you get my meaning...i don't fancy war, and inocent deaths=)

now back to topic
the persians are only seen as bad, cuz our view of ancient history is always from a greek/roman point of view...the greeks left more things written so we think the persians are bad, but that might not be true, and possibly the contrary..history is always written by the winners, as bad as it can be... but we can also say that the persians had some unusal social rules, and if m memory serves me, practiced human sacrifice, and other less than ethical activities, from our western cristian point of view...in all wars, there are no evil guys and good guys, evil is always on both sides, even those who say are good, can be seen as evil, cuz many times they liberate other societies out of selfish greed, and we can't forget that, there are always good persons on both fronts..i think the greeks and spartans specialy should not be seen as examples, and pinacles of virtue, and persians as brute barbarians full of vices..i prefer a much more grey view of life, not using absolutes..

[MSB]

Not quite the same. The Ionians were greek too though - don't forget that. Not saying that they were all BFF or anything, but still it's a little different to say that the Persians supporting a Dacian revolt from the greeks is like the greeks supporting a greek revolt from the Persians.

Ok mabye I should have said the Persians were promoting a rebellion in this fictional Greek empire in somewhere a bit more Persian like the land just above Armenia, but hey! Similar sort of thing!

[Zaknafien]

Iberus: Obviously superiority in materiel is not everyhing; I did not make that observation. I am mainly concerned with some countries planning methods and overall military standards, to include profesisonalism, physical fitness, and discipline within both the noncommissioned and comisisoned officer ranks. For example, the Romanian units in Afghanistan in paticular are quite sub-par---they are 80% overweight, over thirty years of age, and are not willing to engage enemy forces in firefights or aggressive operations. Regardless of the equipment they use (which, by the way is awful) it doesn't matter. a British commando armed with an AK-47 and a 1940s era radio will still preform better due to his professionalism, training, and esprit de corps.

On-Topic: It would be interesting to trace the origin of the Spartiate mythos; is it really Achean propaganda spread about? Were they really that much better fighters than the myrmidons, for example? I am not as well versed on Greek ancient sources as I am the Roman...